In response to John Greenfield,
Charges of ‘illegal colonialism’ are neither infantile nor in contradiction of the facts.
This charge is one I hear often in this debate, namely that there never was and isn’t a place called Palestine or a people called Palestinians. It reminds me of the self-seeking claim that the land occupied by Israel was a ‘land without a people’. Terra Nullius was false in Australia, and was certainly false in the Holy Land.
Palestine exists. It was a region of the Ottoman Empire, and a distinct mandatory under the League of Nations. It was supposed to be partitioned to make way for two states under UN Resolution 181, a situation the Zionists accepted at the time.
The areas that everyone calls the Occupied Territories are so-called because they lie outside Israel’s recognised borders and were seized in war. According to international law no country may make war for territorial gain. Any land occupied even in a defensive or just war must be handed back. A refusal to do so makes their continued occupation illegal. Also, the occupying power is explicitly disbarred from settling this territory. In actively promoting Jewish settlement Israel is open to the charge of colonialism.
Of course it is hard to define exactly to whom the occupied lands should be returned, but this is no excuse. Recognising the need to do so involves repudiating settlement and agreeing on a fixed border for the new state. Even if the security and governance issues are yet to be resolved, actually doing this would ensure Israel’s position in law and in the eyes of the international community. Refusing to do so makes any other step to peace meaningless.

Perhaps we may look at Israel through an Australian lens. Most Jewish, Christian and Muslim children in Israel go to schools of their own faith and develop suspicions of the 'other'. Not only that but 'secular' Jews go to different schools from the more religious Jews.

In Australia religious schools get government subsidies. The percentage of children in private schools on a religious basis is increasing. Muslims, Jews and Christians in general go to separate schools. As Australia becomes more multicultural it will also become more fragmented.

The Labor government continues to support the School Chaplaincy Program which is a product of the Howard government.

Duncan Brown, former CEO of Scripture Union Queensland which has supplied many of the school chaplains states:

"School Chaplaincy is a feeder ministry - it is a way of directly targeting potential Christians and bringing them to God and into the church environment. If we don't spend time investing in this ministry now, our churches will suffer the consequences of an ageing population base unable to support its initiatives."

The School Chaplaincy Program has no place in a pluralistic democratic society. I am extremely disappointed in the Labor government for continuing a Howard initiative of this kind. Government subsidising of a missionary effort to a captive population of school children should be stopped.

At least in Israel children of one faith are not subjected to the missionising of another faith in their school system.

A school system where children of different faiths come together without being inculcated with sectarian separatism and all get a good education is desirable in both Israel and Australia. It exists for most children in neither country.

Marilyn Shepherd wrote:

"Come to think of it the jews never mention that of the 110 million killed in wars last century they made up only 5% of the deaths, they never mention the others at all.

Then they hijack the word anti-semitic, forgetting that semites are all arabs and assyrians."

Both statements are false. Jews have had a tremendous concern about genocide in general. Raphael Lemkin (1900-1959) is a Jew who invented the word, genocide, in 1943. Prevent Genocide International is one organisation inspired by Lemkin. It is opposed to genocide in general. One example in Australia of Jews and others working together to expose and oppose genocide is the Centre for Comparative Genocide Studies at Macquarie University.Under the egis of that institution Hovannisian, an Armenian scholar, has compared Holocaust denial with the denial by the Turkish government of the Armenian genocide.

The word, antisemitism, was invented by Wilhelm Marr in 1879 when he formed the Antisemitic League. Marr meant Jews and no other group.

What is fuss.
The world knew of the Hitler programme and its implementation.
Few efforts were made.
When the Zionists decided they should have a home land, the Brits and world conscience said yes. Zionists chose the old Jewish State.
All of it.
Brits shook their heads and walked away.
America agreed. The State of Israel was born. Small limited excusing the wish for more.
An uninhabited land.
The squatters were removed the boundaries extended.
The first UN resolution of the Security council was given and ignored.
The Zionists claimed to be the injured party.
Noble things were said.
Jews from some parts of the Arab world were pressured into Israel.
Anti Semitism raged it was said.
Palestinians forming organisations of opposition fought and were labelled terrorist.
Hamas was courted as antidote to upset Palestinians, terrorist also.
Apartheid was practiced elections denied.
Nazi practice, not forgotten, became the norm.
The world did little Israel being armed and important in the foreign policies of nations well us!
Then America seeking an American century decided Saddam was a good target. No arms after the gulf war, other that is than formulated ones, of much hype.
Aggression on a scale at least equalling Israel’s was supported. Torture and theft were practiced.
The world did little to correct.
America like Israel in its Middle East world was dominantly armed.

So interesting topic on which to display concern but again other things are of importance.
The realisation that market economy does not give growth rates as wanted that financial controls have been gutted, bust following boom continues as before only this time with larger potential damage to the larger number of humans rendered vulnerable in the name of the free market economy. Greenhouse is a problem and we run out of oil with current substitute threatening food supplies though offering profit.

So lets get real. Our livelihood and comfort seems at stake and you want to do something about aggressive wars or excess nationalism with special pleading?
Making what? A nice little world in which oft spouted beliefs many incorporated in religion could become reality?

Lowenstein is drawing a very long bow in attempting to compare the Palestinians to the Tibetans. For starters Israel has been invaded 3 times in the last century by Palestines' allies. The murder and mayhem caused by the Palestinians has no comparison with the Tibetans and their non-violent leader the Dali lama.

Lets look at the differences.

The Dali Lama
1) recognises Chinas right to exist
2) Does not wish to secede from China
3) Preaches non violence and promotes negotiation
4) Wants the right to self determination under Chinese umbrella

Hamas
1) refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist
2) wants all of the land previously called Palestine – ie no jews in the middle east
3) Teaches hatred to its school children
4) Follows religious teachings which command the killing of jews
5) Actively and regularly commits acts of terror towards innocent civilians

China
1) China will not allow Tibet to form its own country
2) Is an autocractic state run by a cabal of 9
3) Doesn’t have a free media – lies to its people
4) No rule of law
5) Is in no danger from Tibetans or their allies in the region

Israel
1) has offered Palestine land in return for peace and has form with Egypt and Jordan
2) is democratic
3) has a free media and
4) rule of law
5) suffers significant security concerns from terrorists and their allies

Once again we find the same thing in this exercise, contributors tied up in causations, never contributing to the real reason that has made the majority of the Israeli Jews, after so much sympathy for them over their horrific experiences under Hitler’s Nazis.

Unfortunately, they are now virtually just US lap dogs, made so much worse by America and other strong nations shutting their eyes and ears to the Israeli build-up of the most up-to-date mllitaristic nuclear arsenal in today’s world.

It could be said that the above would be the present mindset of most of our WW2 veterans concerning our international problems, thoughts now mostly aimed on the Middle East, unfortunately over a tiny nation having so much strike power, closely allied with, of course, Pax Americana, the most powerful nation ever to exist in the history of this earth.

The sorrowful part about it, is that this great nation does not understand that even a semblance of humility proven by an admittance that Israel would have been so much more popular if the US had allowed a better devised UN to run the world show, as was the hope of Maynard Keynes before he died near the end of WW2, the wonderful Marshall Plan being the beginning of a better and fairer world .

With Gandhi showing the way by ending colonialisation in India - and so it went on despite the worrying rise of the Soviets.

And so it goes on with colonialism now Neo, its corporates nearly matching the old East India Company, making one wonder if we have again taken the wrong turn-off.

By the looks of it, reckon it might be left to us ordinary silly buggers after all - just sharin' the blame, as happens finally in sport, as we should have reckoned in the first place.

Cheers - BB, WA