Tao,

There is a Jewish nation, which has its own culture, its own religion and its own state. The Jewish and Israeli culture have close connections with the Jewish religion, so even while 70% of Israelis do not believe in the Jewish religion as divinely-given, most of them still appreciate selected elements of the Jewish religion as their national heritage.

Although some individuals (mostly Jewish and Christian) privately do, Israel as a state does not base its right to exist on religion.

Some Israeli leaders, notably Ben Gurion (Israel's first prime-minister) did rely on the bible - but as a historical-national document rather than a religious item. Israel's declaration of independence, http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/israel.htm does not even mention the words "God" or "divine", but does mention the bible ("Book of Books") as a cultural gift to the world, and its prophets as humanistic models. The punch-line of Israel's declaration of independence is:
"This right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign State."

Anyway, why should a nation need to justify its right to exist in the first place? and then why the need for religious justifications, as if ordinary common-sense reasons are insufficient? does Australia for example have a religious basis that allows it to survive and allows its citizens to continue living in freedom and not under a dark Islamic regime that executes "unmodest" girls?

Part One. You Suckers!
We are Israel. We are untouchable. No matter what we do the international community will not act against us. Oh, there will be talks at the United Nations but we know that the United States will intervene on our behalf. There will be Arab League discussions but we know that no state will take action against us. There will be mass protests and demonstrations; there will be activists and advocates begging for peace; there will be rallies and fundraisers to help the targets of our bombs. And we know that nothing will make a difference because we are Jews - we are victims of the Holocaust. We have suffered such that we have the right to make the rest of the world pay (even though organised Zionism officially declared war on Germany in 1933, long before Hitler's Final Solution). Because we are victims.
Yes, we know that peoples all over the world have suffered worse crimes than ours, but they were not the Chosen People. We know that over 22 million Russians were killed under Stalin, 15 million Chinese killed by the Japanese, millions elsewhere in the world who suffer the same fate in the bloodiest 20th century. We know that Zionism is an atheist Marxist creation using Judaism as its weapon; that we were founded upon terrorism and our leaders became Israel's prime ministers and Nobel Peace Prize winners; that less than 10% of Jews worldwide supported the Zionist cause for decades until WWII. We know that the crimes committed by Hitler equally affected Communists, gypsies, the handicapped, and political prisoners.

That does not matter - we are special. The rest of the world will not touch us because they are terrified of the label "anti-Semite". World leaders: terrified of this most glorious ad hominem even though we are mostly not Semitic peoples. Jews of Israel, the Sephardim Jews, were almost non existent when we arrived from Russia, Poland, Austria-Hungary and elsewhere in the 20th century and demanded Arab land.
http://www.rense.com/general73/sunto.htm

Part Two. You Suckers!

We did not come from Yemen, Ethiopia or Iraq, but who cares? We are the victims and that is all that counts.
Time and again we wonder at how far American gullibility will take us. We push it to the limits on cable television and get away with it repeatedly. We know that the majority of the world is aware we blatantly lie when we express our "deepest regrets" because "terrorists" were hiding in the villages we destroy. We even have the gall to pick the precise same targets as a decade ago, ignoring the cries of outrage from America and the West. We'll just repeat the mantra "a tragic mistake".
Honestly, we, too, are rather surprised to see that America patiently sits back and buys our words each time. We have trained our diplomats well, not only in the art of deception to the media, but by using powerful strong arm behind the scenes tactics to mould the views of US Congressmen and women in our favour. We have worked on this for decades and it has been perfected for the one place it counts: our bank America. We rely upon those weapons; we need to create constant conflict so as to receive a perpetual $13 billion annual aid package from the US, including unsecured loans that we have never been, nor ever will be, required to pay back. We are living a dream: what we want is given to us on a silver patter because we are Jews, and we have the Holocaust.
The above is only daring in that it is never voiced publicly in the West. The world is watching as Israel incinerates the Lebanese, next the Syrians and Palestinians, then Iran. Diplomats call for peace, a cease -fire, and negotiations. They speak the language of non committance. It takes a few brave men and women in leadership positions to dare to speak the truth; losing that AIPAC support in government is the kiss of death, and academics who dare write the facts know that their tenured careers are over.
http://www.rense.com/general73/sunto.htm

Dear Yuyutsu

I found one of your comments interesting, when you referred to Ben Gurion taking the Prophets as 'humanistic models'.

I just wish to make the point, that apart from the Decalogue (10 Commandments) and Covenant relationship between G-D and Israel, the words of the prophets are meaningless.

The natural tendency of Israel, as for all of us, was to gravitate towards the golden calf and Baal and Ashteroth and the associated debauchery, "Lets Party" is the normal inclination of unrestrained humans.

The promised land, was nothing more than a bit of geography whereby G-D sought to convey the message of universal salvation to the world through the Israelites. Ultimately, that message was presented though our Lord Jesus Christ, to whom the Old Testament ceremonial and sacrificial system pointed forward to.

But to the Jews of today, there can only ever be one reason for insisting on the validity of the Land as a place of nationhood, and that can only be in terms of their original calling by G-D.

Clearly, by your own statistics, 70% of them don't see it this way.
But this does not alter the validity of the reason I have outlined.
Of course, that reasoning can only apply to non Christian Jews.
If they accepted Christ as their Messiah, they would no longer need the land, because the 'true' Israel is the body of Christ (including people of Jewish ancestry who believe the Gospel)- The Church.

So, Ben Gurion may have found it more palatable to the world to express his nationalism in 'humanistic models' re the prophets, but he is simply Biblically incorrect in viewing them that way.

Humanism must always be subject to divine revelation, because without that, Humanism will simply develop the shape with the strongest human.

Good news!

Almost two thirds of hospitals in Lebanon could "cease to function" due to fuel shortages, the World Health Organization warns.

Full story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5255996.stm

The UN calls off the day's attempt to get aid to south Lebanon, as Israel imposes a curfew on southern residents.

Full story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5256674.stm

Lebanon's coast could take up to 10 years to recover from a massive oil slick, the nation's environment minister says.

Full story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/-/2/hi/science/nature/5255966.stm

War is always justifiable.

Isn't it Col Rouge, BD, Yuyutsu, Martin Ibn Warriq? You must be feeling very morally superior today - right wing AND christian - superior beings all. Who was it who said "suffer the little children"? Well, they are suffering - no doubt about that. But that's all right because Israel must defend itself at ALL costs.

Peace, anyone?

Dear Boaz,

Thank you for your point of view.

Most Israelis revere the bible and know it well, not as a divine document, but rather as their beloved cultural heritage. Unfortunately, Israel also has a fanatic Jewish minority (followers of the late Rabbi Kook and American Rabbi Kahane) that abuse and interpret the bible as if they can force the Messiah to come by harassing their Arab neighbours in the West Bank. They are a shame, giving bad reputation and trouble to Israel, therefore I rather not discuss religion here.

But Truth is the same no matter from which angle you view it.

I find it important to point out the right of Israel to exist in plain terms that everyone should agree - no matter what their religious beliefs are. Regardless of what God did or did-not promise, it is common sense that Jews have the right to live and pursue their national religion and culture in Israel just as Norwegians are allowed to do so in Norway. Did Norway require an explicit divine charter to exist?

Scout:

"Almost two thirds of hospitals in Lebanon could "cease to function""
- why then did they send a Raad missile totally destroying the top floor of the Nahariya hospital, wiping out the optical ward?

"Lebanon's coast could take up to 10 years to recover from a massive oil slick"
- why then did they their rockets set up fires in northern Israel that burned half a million trees that will take 60 years to grow again?

"The UN calls off the day's attempt to get aid to south Lebanon"
- why then are a million residents of northern Israel forced to stay in shelters or flee their homes?

Disproportionate?

- fortunately so! had Hezbullah succeeded doing what they want, would they leave any hospital in Israel operating, or any patient or doctor alive?

Listen to Ahmadenijad's statements: Iran's purpose is to destroy the infidels, starting with Israel. Hezbullah are their proxy whose fighters received training in Iran.

Yes, Israel is to blame for not turning the other cheek.