Yuyutsu,

You are deluded if you believe that Israel is an independent nation. Its very existence and military superiority is dependent upon US support – billions of dollars of aid, the majority of it military – take it away and what have you got? Your statement simply does not stand up to any objective scrutiny.

You, and others, appear to view the situation as though Israel and its neighbours and supporters are like children playing in the playground, one day they are friends, and the next they are not. This is superficial and infantile thinking.

Given that the US ruling elite only ever does things to further its own economic aims – and is spending billions on Israel, rather than being uninterested in what they are doing, any reasonable thinking person would be questioning their motives on a more serious level.

You should also be examining your ideas about the need for Jewish people to have their own state. Your views are similar to Nazi ideology which said that Jews could not assimilate. This standpoint is reactionary in that instead of looking for a progressive solution in which all people can live free from want and violence, you believe that the answer is separation and further alienation, based on the use of ever greater levels of violence and repression.

Jewish people have a long history of intellectual progressive thought. It is a pity you choose to forgo that history to engage in simplistic unquestioning devotion to an ideal which has ultimately proven disastrous.

Tao,

Israel and Australia face a similar problem: they cannot be too choosy about their friends and allies.

Lets face it, the USA is evil, but we cannot do without it because it is strong and fights even bigger evils. America was not always on Israel's side. Previously, one of Israel's few allies was South Africa. Israel disliked Appartheid, but was not in a position to tell their almost single friend to go away. Same for the Soviet Union which Israel could not reject either.

Israel will survive, with or without friends, because its citizens have nowhere else to go - the difference can only be HOW it will survive: whether it be rich or poor, small or large, and whether it will have few or many casualties in its wars.

It may be easy for you to ask others to give up their culture and live without context in some blend western world - your culture. Have you thought about how many things you take for granted: the English language, the Gregorian calendar, the literature you grew up with, the 7-day week with a 2-day weekend, democracy, women having equal rights and not required to cover their face, mixed education, religious freedom, sexual freedom, Christmas, welfare, the songs you learnt in school, the right of children to leave home, the right to choose your own vocation, not having to grow or not to grow a beard, table manners, etc. etc. etc. None of the above cultural factors is obvious! How would you feel if required to assimilate in China?

I am not in favour of ethnic separation, certainly not allienation, but rather that a group of people who have their unique culture and wish to have a state where they can live accordingly, should be able to do so. If others want to join them and are happy to abide by their culture, rather than override it - they should be welcome!

I admit that my views are un-communist, but see nothing progressive about a blend gray world, where people have enough to eat, but nothing to live for.

Yuyutsu – “I admit that my views are un-communist, but see nothing progressive about a blend gray world, where people have enough to eat, but nothing to live for.”

What exactly is it that you “live for” that you deny others enough to eat (and therefore life itself)?

A calendar?

A language?

A religious holiday?

Well Tao, would you like to give those up for a start?

Nobody's hungry or wants to deny food from anybody: it is irrelevant and was just in response to your "free from want" statement.

What a common wishful-thinking: "all the problems of the world would be over if only everyone was just like me". How would you feel if, though being free from want and violence, you were forced to give up your whole way of life in favour of somebody else's? even animals do not like living in a zoo and rather be out of there despite all want and violence: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13602322/

Even today, 21st century, there are still people that have a fabric of life, or culture, a tradition dear to them which gives them a sense of belonging, continuation and purpose (and yes, it includes calendar, language, religious holidays and much more). Perhaps some of us should envy them, but is this a reason to take away what is dear to them, leaving them as [well-fed and free of violence] human-dust, either within a foreign culture that means nothing to them or in no culture at all?

Yuyutsu,

I would be quite willing go give up our calendar – what is so important about what calendar we use? It is arbitrary. I presume your Jewish calendar is based on some biblical “reason” like when God created the world about 6000 years ago. Given that God didn’t create the world, and certainly didn’t do it 6000 years ago, it is pretty irrelevant. Just as it is irrelevant when Jesus Christ was born – although it determines our calendar (which apparently is a few years out anyway).

Religious holidays? Well I would quite happily give up religious holidays. My family does not celebrate Christmas day for its religious significance, we just use it as an excuse to get together. Given that a socialist world would mean that we all work less, we should have more time to do whatever we like anyway.

Language? I have no real problem giving up English. In fact sometimes I wish I was brought up in France – French is such a beautiful language – unfortunately I can’t speak it.

I have a sense of belonging. I belong to the human race, whatever race, colour, creed, religion. Its history is my history, in all its different colourful cultures, traditions and languages.

Your attempt to paint my views as “all the problems of the world would be over if only everyone was just like me” is incorrect and disingenuous – another example of your black and white thinking. Why would I want everyone to be like me – how boring would that be?

It appears that you are the one that can’t handle difference – you want a state in which all people who are the same as you, or those willing to live like you, can live without “others” interfering. Pretty insular if you ask me.

Tao,

It is not that I care to have a state where all people are the same (quite the contrary), but about the right of people to safely live the kind of life they aspire to have.

Israel for example has Arab population: nothing wrong with that, so long as they do not become a hostile majority that defeat the very nature and purpose of that state.

If they genuinely accept that Israel is a Jewish state, that the common official language is Hebrew, the day of rest is the Sabbath, the public holidays are the Jewish ones rather than Christmas or Ramadan, that those wishing to observe the Jewish religion can safely do so without repercussions, that the history, literature, idioms, fables, morals and songs taught in public schools are primarily from the Jewish tradition, etc. and that Jews will never be persecuted in Israel, and if persecuted elsewhere they can find a shelter there - then Ahalan Wasahalan ("welcome" in Arabic) even if they become 90%. The Druze, Tcherkesian and Christian Arabs mostly accept it, and so they are part and parcel of the Israeli society, which I would hate seeing go away. Most Moslems however tend not to accept Israel as a Jewish state.

Your sense of belonging to the world is good, but too vague. It is natural for humans to also want to belong to smaller and tangible groups, such as nations and families. I understand that you would feel comfortable in the French culture, but would you honestly feel the same also in China, Japan, Afghanistan, Russia? what happens to all high-theories when for example you simply cannot speak the language? or digest the same foods? or understand their social subtleties? or unfamiliar with their literature? or when despite your good-will, the locals perceive and reject you as different?

With socialism, aren't you simply replacing nationality with class-consciousness?

I don't know you personally, so I was wrong guessing what makes you tick, but surely there are other things you wouldn't give up, perhaps your favourite football team? TV channel? beer with mates? socialist club?