Tao, truly important and interesting questions:

Technically, Israel got the right to declare itself a Jewish State by UN resolution 181, and a Jew is anyone born to a Jewish mother or has converted to Judaism. For being a Jew, there is no requirement to believe or practice anything (in other words, you can be a Jew without being Jewish!). Israel's right to exist is officially justified by its declaration of independence: http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/israel.htm .

Life is bigger than theory and modern Israel is now a thriving nation in its own right. It is essentially a secular country (with a few hickups) and nobody there is asked to follow any religion.

Silly indeed that Israel does not provide civil-marriages. One consequence (among others) is that couples of mixed religions cannot marry in Israel, but they simply marry elsewhere (usually Cyprus), and Israel recognizes those marriages.

To really understand Israel and its relevance, you need to think not in terms of RELIGION, but in terms of CULTURE.

Jews are a nation, and the Jewish culture includes the bible and other writings; a history; legends; folklore; art; music; the Hebrew language; the Hebrew calendar; the Jewish Sabbath; the Jewish holidays; an affinity to the land of Israel; and also the Jewish religion: it is a personal choice - some actually follow Judaism as a religion, some follow it partially, while others only refer to it, just as you would refer to Christmas whether or not you actually believe that Jesus was born on December 25th.

While the bible is very important to the Jewish culture, and is thoroughly studied and quoted, you will find in Israel as many opinions about it as the number of Jews.

Israel is the place where Jews can live by their culture, where for example, Hebrew is the official language; the Sabbath, Friday-evening to Saturday-night is the official day of rest; the public holidays are the Jewish holidays; the Hebrew date is listed along the Gregorian; schools teach Jewish heritage; and the state makes it convenient for those wishing to follow the Jewish religion to do so.

“UN attacks Lebanon aid 'disgrace'

The UN's top humanitarian official has criticised Israel and Hezbollah for hindering access to southern Lebanon, calling the situation a "disgrace".

Jan Egeland said both sides could give aid agencies access in a "heartbeat". Hospitals in south Lebanon are also said to be low on food and fuel.

The warning came amid more violence across the Israel-Lebanon border.
Two Israeli Arabs were killed in Hezbollah rocket fire, while Israeli air strikes killed two Lebanese.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4778591.stm

As I have said previously, neither side gives a toss about human lives – both Israel and Hezbollah deserve only condemnation and yet the world just sits and watches and does nothing.

There is no justification for terrorism, nor is there any justification for Israel's slaughter of innocent Lebanese. Hezbollah is laughing as Israel creates more enemies for itself, while the USA hopes that Israel will do some of its dirty work for it by eliminating another extreme Islam group AND NONE OF THEM ARE INTERESTED IN NEGOTIATING FOR PEACE!

There will not be an end to terrorism (such as the latest attempt in London) until peace is negotiated in the ME - the western interest in oil and power in the ME is seen as interference by many of the ME nations. In the face of global warming and depletion of oil reserves, it makes no sense for western powers to seek domination in the ME when they should be concentrating on renewable energy.

What a mess!

Tao / Tristan – “They (nation states) haven’t just existed for all time.”
Oh to agree for once.

Nations change and reform over the centuries. Thus, what Palestinians might claim as their “historic land” has no contemporary validity if Israel presently occupies it.

Ths whole point of moving forward is, we start from today and not some historic precept established centuries ago (it is just like the way the Irish / Celts who still have their knickers in a twist over the battle of the Boyne).

If we look at which nation states are functioning and which are not, Israel would be an outstanding example of success, Lebanon is a failed state, hence its inability to curb terrorists within its land and Palestine – a complete basket case of incompetence and corruption

However, “and the role they have played and continue to play – whether any of them are relevant in a world of globalised production”

I guess, democratically, each nation state has a right to determine its constitution etc.

That is not something to be imposed upon them. But each nation has responsibility to cohabit with its neighbours. I see no resistance by Israel to accommodate. I do see the elected political majority of Palestine, in Hamas, and the unelected minority in Lebanon, Hezbollah, both determined not to co-exist with Israel.

So before anyone suggests Israelis be held up for criticism, first apply it to “Palestinians” and the Muslim Lebanese who support the criminal organisation of Hezbollah.

Scout “We bring them to the negotiation table by trade sanctions - it will require a unified effort from all the world powers.

Southern Rhodesia, which after 15 years of trade sanctions was in better economic condition than after the subsequent 26 years with out trade sanctions, as Zimbabwe.

As for the unified efforts of the world powers – pure delusion, it will not happen whilst the UN security council exists and if the UN security council did not exist, then there would be no “forum” for world powers to “unify” in.

What matters is the side we are on "wins"

Thank you Col, you have never been more succinct nor more revealing about your true nature, when you stated:

>>What matters is the side we are on "wins"<<

Col Rouge you poor man, I am speechless, I can only quote Tenzin Gyatso:

"There can be no peace as long as there is grinding poverty, social injustice, inequality, oppression, environmental degradation, and as long as the weak and small continue to be trodden by the mighty and powerful."

Col, winning has nothing to do with peace.

Scout
"There will not be an end to terrorism (such as the latest attempt in London) until peace is negotiated in the ME"

Disagree-the root cause of such things has more to do with insular subcultures (or national cultures) which allow/peddle only one side of the story.

As you seemed to have acknowledged in a previous post, there are as many wrongs on one side as the other.Had I the will & the right cultural setting I could sift through all the wrongs done to Christians (&/or other minorities) under Islamic societies, both presently & in the past, and make a case for any number of terrorist attacks on Islamic figures.

Ah Col - the contradictions in your thinking abound!

“what Palestinians might claim as their “historic land” has no contemporary validity if Israel presently occupies it”

So by this logic, if Arabs/Muslims manage to drive Israel into the sea, then, in the future, the land on which Israel now exists and claims as “historic land” will have no “contemporary validity”, just as it had no “contemporary validity” at the time it was created.

It also follows that if Muslims do achieve their aim by means of terrorism, they, as Zionist terrorists before them, will be on the side which “wins”. What were once terrorists will be victors, to whom will go the spoils. I suppose you would change your allegiance then.

Ah “BUT” you say, “each nation has responsibility to cohabit with its neighbours”.

So even though, as you say, “nations change and reform over the centuries”, anyone who dares to challenge the “contemporary validity” of a current nation (which has been “imposed upon them”) must be heinous criminals or terrorists – but if they win we must accept it!

What wonderful convoluted logic.