I find myself agreeing with Philo for the first time.

I can forgive the conspiracy theories because they at least show that we are not all believing everything that we’re being told - Something that is needed for a healthy society. Especially in this case though, as there are some interesting questions that have been raised that don’t seem to have any other rational explanation (as of yet anyway).

But here we have Alan Grey, buying into every bit of crap that FOX News spoon-feeds him and raising the point of totalitarianism…BUT...only in the context extreme Leftist governments; all the while ignoring that extreme Rightwing governments would have the exact same result. After all: Extreme Rightwingism = Fascism = Totalitarianism.

The leftists are often accused of being “doomsdayers” when they raise the point of totalitarianism as the end result of extreme Rightwingism, yet it seems OK for Mr Grey over here to make the exact same claims about Leftwing governments.

It seems alright for our mainstream media to spew neo-conservative propaganda, but as soon as anyone raises questions about what we’re being told, then they’re suddenly a socialist.

Ahh…yes, the bias and hypocrisy is really starting to show now. And many thanks to Alan’s simple mind for making it obvious.

The Bush military commissions are illegal, conspiracy is not a legitimate war crime - but does Howard or Bush say sorry? No way. The continue the tripe that David Hicks is a mass murderer, never mind that he has been charged with guarding a tank, has never fired a gun at anyone and the old bazooka story was a posed scam.

Iraq had nothing to do with September 11 but the US has been reaming millions, billions out of Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Iran for decades to get the oil.

Alan Grey - those "weapons" were useless sarin and mustard gas that ran out of puff 15 years ago. Get a grip man.

The people of Afghanistan had no role in the September 11 crime against humanity, yet tens of thousands of them have been slaughtered or are dying of starvation.

We locked up refugees who escaped the Taliban and Saddam Hussein, sometimes for years. We locked up the Iranians escaping the mad Mullahs even longer.

So much for terror regimes.

Afghanistan, 2006, still under the Taliban.... Marily Shepherd is there as a 'peace activist' and suddenly a Taliban 'religious policeman' notices her ankle is exposed. He rushes over with a long cane and begins welting into her over and over..screaming "COVER UP that ankle you slutty ignorant infidel whore !"

Marilyn.. please stop with this 'we are the bad guys' mantra.... a bit of careful thought and reflection will help you here.

CITIZEN

"They all yearn for armageddon. Religion is proof of just how stupid humans are but why should the rest of humanity suffer"

If you read Matthew 24 and Luke 17 you might rephrase that from 'yearn' to 'fear'.

Christians yearn for the return of Christ, not Armageddon.

Enthusiastic Christians of a 'pre-millenial' Last Days persuasion feel that contributing to the restoration of Israel is important in preparing the way for Christs return. Let me say emphatically, that there is nothing 'we' can do to hasten or delay that coming. It will come 'as a thief in the night' when you least expect it.

The important point is, 'are we ready' to meet Him ? Are you ?

Jews yearn for the coming of their Messiah, (a political/military/Spiritual one, which is one reason many of them rejected Jesus.. too meek, but WAIT...there's more and we will see it at his second coming.)

Muslims yearn for their 70 virgins/huries.

The 'lies' etc used to justify war/invasion, which is the topic, come from a variety of sources. Its a bit difficult to quantify how much comes from which source. All I see is those who posters most despise being blamed.

I think we can be sure of one thing, most political lies come to the surface and return to bite those who perpetrate them in the bum.

Just out of curisosity, can you point to any regime of any political flavor of any time in all history, where such lies have not been used to promote the interests of that regime ? :)

"All have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3.23

So far on this thread we have the Iranian Government and Saddam being more honourable that the Bush /Blair /Howard joint war administration. The Taliban more honourable than John Howard and his lies. That 9/11 was the work of the CIA and not convicted muslim extremists. Who believes the lies and who is promoting propaganda? I suggest you live in those countries you believe have high and honourable motives before abusing democratic countries, with governments that will not please all the citizens.

Who is promoting death to dissidents citizens so one world peaceful view might reign supreme? They are certainly not democratic nations but totalitarian, whose dissents want to flee this promotion of peace. Totalitarian societies believe in death to intellectual citizens with a different view, and democratic societies will actively resist totalitarian Governments to protect the right of its citizens to life and individual thought. Those with totalitarian views that wish to threaten or undermine peaceful coexistence by creating fear, terror or harm in a democratic nation must be incarcerated.

Nay -

I have seen the enemy,

And he is us.

Mr Boaz,

”… can you point to any regime of any political flavor of any time in all history, where such lies have not been used to promote the interests of that regime ?”

I couldn’t. Stalin, Hitler…you name it. They’ve all used lies and propaganda to push their agenda.

But I think the reason so many are crying-out-loud in this case is because it’s happening now and it affects us all. Not only that, but we are living amongst many who have bought into it all, but more importantly, our own Prime Minister is going along with it!

Philo,

” So far on this thread we have the Iranian Government and Saddam being more honourable that the Bush /Blair /Howard joint war administration…”

No one’s saying they’re more honourable (except maybe Chris). There’s just not as much point is stating the obvious. We already know how evil the Taliban, Saddam, etc. are, we just need to be vocal about our own governments too. Otherwise they’ll think they can get away with anything.

Marilyn,

”Alan Grey - those "weapons" were useless…etc.”

Yeah…Good point. But I wouldn’t worry too much about Grey. He treats anyone who has peripheral vision as “Moonbats” [SIC].

Here’s a nice little list of facts that his kind are conveniently ignoring:

1. Halliburton, the company that Dick Cheney is the former CEO of (what a coincidence) is an oil-drilling company. Their stocks have risen nearly $80,000,000 since the invasion of Iraq. Not to mention the numerous others who, together, have made billions-upon-billions of dollars from this war.

2. A regime change in Iraq had been planned in early 2001 by a neo-conservative think-tank involving Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and Jeb Bush.

3. General Wesley Clark, a decorated, four-star general in the US army and supreme allied commander of NATO, was asked by the Bush administration to pin the 9/11 attacks on Saddam.

*But all of this is just a co-incidence. In reality, Bush and his cronies have blown nearly $250,000,000 to free those evil people who are capable of throwing their children overboard.

*Denotes sarcasm.