Drooge - <Right the wrongs inflicted on the Arab world and the jihadists would have no argument that gives them such credibility among the down trodden and poor Arabs which are today a breeding ground for jihadist recruits.>

What 'wrongs' are we supposed to 'right' exactly? Most terrorists and their supporters are far from poor and downtrodden - how do you explain the posters featured in the Daily Telegraph report on Islamic internet hate sites? I have visited many of these sites and some are far worse then the example given.

These people have been given the chance of a new life in Australia - a country that has never imposed 'wrongs' on Arabs - yet they still carp and whine. I have asked this question many times - why the hell is Australia continuing to import these people?

Revealed: Sydney's web of hate

http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,19736270-5001021,00.html
July 10, 2006

'MUSLIM extremists in Sydney are using the internet to gather support for making Australia an Islamic state.

The chat rooms also reveal a ground swell of support for notorious terrorists such as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi among some young Muslims living in the suburbs.

Just a day after investigators in the US uncovered an internet-based plot to attack New York, The Daily Telegraph can reveal that Australian Muslim websites are awash with similar material.

The sinister forums are contained in innocent-looking websites posing as community discussion boards.

The Sydney Muslim Youth Forum, on which hundreds of young Muslims exchange views about Islam, devotes several threads to turning Australia an Islamic state.

"I reckon we stay and try our best to get to high positions in this country so it comes to the fold of Islam," wrote one member calling himself God's Slave 4 Life.

Another member called Wasalam also suggested imposing the Muslim way of life on Australian society from the inside and called on members to pray for Muslims waging war overseas.'

So much for 'poor and downtrodden'.

Coach,

You completely contradict yourself: first you say there is plenty of evidence that God exists; then you say you have to have FAITH. Which is it? Is there evidence, or do you have to have faith? If there is evidence, show me.

I suppose this is it “Since no one can honestly deny Jesus’ existence, death, and resurrection; and since everyone has access to the infallible word of God – that withstood centuries of criticism and attacks – there is no longer any excuse for anyone to discover all the proof needed to make a factual and logical decision to believe – unless they chose not to.”

“Since no-one can honestly deny Jesus’ existence, death, and resurrection”. It seems possible that there was such a historical figure as Jesus Christ – although we don’t know for sure that there was. If he did exist then he most certainly died - nothing to deny there – a pretty human characteristic actually. That he was resurrected is the problem. The only “proof” you have is a book written by people with an agenda.

What is the “factual and logical decision” to be based on? The book of dubious origins? Give me a break. If that is all the evidence you have then you should limit yourself to talking about FAITH. Don’t embarrass yourself by talking about fact, evidence or proof. All it shows is that you don’t understand what you are talking about.

With regard to your comments about the secular solution to “rising Islamisation”, does that mean you condone a “religious war”? If so, you are no better than jihadists. Whatever happened to turning the other cheek? Or do you conveniently and hypocritically choose to ignore that lesson from your Saviour?

to be continued....

Drooge, well said.

Dee, it should be said that if you choose to get your hysterical opinion from the Daily Telegraph then you have no hope of providing a reasoned and rational contribution to this forum. You are behaving in exactly the way the government and its media lackeys wants you to.

I have read through your past comments on other threads and, despite your protests, I consider you bigoted and xenophobic.

It is not Islamic terrorism you should fear, but your government.

Coach, the solution (simplistically due to word limits) is for average working class Christians, Muslims, Jews and members of all religions (and atheists) to recognize that they have more in common with each other than they do with their rulers and religious leaders, and that it is those leaders who are causing the wars, poverty and misery. They must then remove their leaders from power and reorganize society on the basis of human need, not profit.

Tao – as you should know, if you had read my post, I said that there are several Islamic hate sites on the net. I don’t need to depend on the Daily Telegraph for information, those who take notice knew about these sites long ago.

<I consider you bigoted and xenophobic>

Your privilege. I consider you a blind fool. Fortunately, we live in a free country where we can express our opinions, which would not be the case if the idiots yammering on Islamic hate sites ever gained power.

BTW ‘xenophobia’ means 'hatred of foreigners' and is not applicable to Islam (which is a religion, not a race of people). And yes, I am certainly bigoted against people who have declared themselves enemies of Australia – in fact, its comical that you call me a bigot when these Muslim posters are perfect examples of bigotry. They are complete dummies, and highly unlikely to do any damage but that fact doesn’t make them any the less offensive.

I do fear the government. I fear that fools in authority will continue to import people who (by their own admission) have no place in Western society. If you wish to see the eventual effect of people like the Islamic hate-mongers, visit Europe. You will see the full catastrophe caused by unchecked Islamic immigration.

Instead of insulting people who rightly deplore the hateful blathering of ingrates, perhaps you should ask yourself why Muslims are the only group of migrants to ever behave in this fashion in Western countries. I dont see hate sites belonging to Christians, Buddhists or Jews, have you ever asked yourself why Muslim hate-mongers exist in such large numbers?

Have you ever asked yourself why they are so determined to force Islam upon the Western world? Or are you so busy being afraid of your own government that you haven't noticed?

Tao says:
"They must then remove their leaders from power and reorganize society on the basis of human need, not profit."

Who or what determines what is needed

Dear Tao :)

"a book written by those with an agenda".....

I truly smile when I read this. Sure..they did have an agenda!
Do you know what it was ?

Have a think about that before you read on. See if your 'agenda' fits the facts.

All the Apostles except one (John) died horrible deaths. But long before that, they already died to this world
"For me, to live is Christ, to die is gain" (Philippians1:21) said Paul.
"I am crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me"(Galatians 2:20)

"I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body," Phil1:20

And this:(Philippians 3)

"If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.

But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ.

YES indeed... they had an agenda. Paul talked the talk and walked the walk. Often in prison, persecuted, stoned and left for dead..... cursed. For what ? Paul 'had it all'..... and gave it up.....

.....*think*