Coach,

Funny you should talk about Islam being the enemy of freedom of speech, separation of church/state, democracy etc. A few centuries ago, Christians were the enemy of those things too. In fact it took wars and revolutions to loosen the grip of the clergy from our lives. Indeed, many Christians are presently the enemies of those concepts and would like to see a return to fundamentalist Christian precepts as law – perhaps you are one of them. Christianity is no different to Islam.

It is also amusing that you would attempt to make your point using knowledge about the physical universe that we have in spite of your religion. How do you know the earth spins at 500m/s or that we are made of atoms and molecules? – your religion certainly didn’t teach you that. If it were up to you Christians we would still believe the earth was the centre of the universe. Centuries ago, people were persecuted by Christians for daring to suggesting that it wasn’t.

Ironically, it was Islam which carried scientific and philosophical knowledge through the dim dark ages of medieval Christianity.

Whether or not I can explain the wondrous phenomena of the universe does not mean that your explanation (that there is a Creator) has any credibility. It is just as credible for me to say that it was created from the dust from my fairy’s wand. Why? Because my fairy told me so. And I have faith.

In fact your attempt to slip Intelligent Design into the debate (as your ilk are attempting to do in our children’s science classes) is just another example of your hocus pocus being forced down our throats.

tbc....

Dee, I was very tempted to ignore Leo's idiotic ramblings. They are so obviously deluded that it felt a little unkind to draw attention to them. I prefer to engage with arguments that have some substance. In some ways it is a compliment to a well-thought-out post if someone disagrees with it.

Prejudiced rubbish like this has no place in a decent forum. I suspect most other posters hoped that by ignoring it Leo would go away.

Dear Rache
I had a look at the web site you provided the link for.
I also share your concerns about the UN and the USA's aspirations to 'run' the show.

On that point, sadly, the UN as I've often said, has always been in existence on the basis of the winners of the last world war, and the security council is that place where they have a Veto power if they feel their interests are threatened. No amount of 'conventions' on this or that will change it.

So, the description of America seeking more influence on the dismally flawed and corrupt UN is not surprising, nor is it any different from the underlying reality anyway. If we think the UN exists outside the frame of reference of 'power' and that its conventions have any more real clout than that of those willing to enforce them, we kind of delude ourselves.

On the Web site content. I noted it was written by a Pastor, who rightly stated that the 'Church' should speak for the 'marginalized and poor etc'. I'd need to know more about 'which' marginalized and poor he means. If he means sexual deviates and illegal immigrants as the marginalized, I have no sympathy at all with what he said.

If he is referring to the economic bullying by large corporations and multinationals, then he has my full and total support.

The old Testament prophets cried out primarily at a nation straying from God. When the nation and its nobility departed from the Holy God of Israel, they filled the land with cult prostitutes of both sexes and child sacrifice and injustice against he poor became common.

ECONOMIC RATIONALISM CONDEMNED
Isaiah 5
8 Woe to you who add house to house
and join field to field
till no space is left.

VALUE INVERSION CONDEMNED (exchanged truth about God for a lie)

20 Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter

We need the prophetic voice more than ever today.

tao,
Honesty is presented by fair and balanced statements. I trust that you will not find me stating that all the worlds problems are the result of atheism; I think I can be fair. If you read Alchemist attitudes toward people of faith, according to him they are the total cause of all the world problems, which is not the case.

His whole obsession is negative bile toward all people of faith. To be fair you will recognise I define behaviour as either following the life and example of Christ, compared to people who claim a religion of Christianity but live lives totally foreign to the nature of the teachings and life of Christ.

Philo, again you show your ignorance. I'm not an atheist, nor am I against people of faith, just against the lies, deceptions and barbarity of monotheism. A secular state is one where religion has no say in state affairs, thats not the case here, the USA, Britain or anywhere monotheism holds sway. When you consider the huge difference between what secular schools get in funding to religious schools from the christian federal government, the free ride religion gets on the tax payers back and their constant meddling in peoples personal affairs, you can see why we aren't secular.

I understand your inability to see beyond your delusions and accept there are billions of people of faith who aren't monotheists. Your belief system is based on lies, flawed and falsely interpreted history.

You don't even know how your christ led his life, anything written about him only refers to two very short periods of time, other than that, you have no idea. There is more anecdotal and historical evidence showing he was just a person who had discovered some truth whilst travelling, just like any evolving being not stuck in the past..

Followers of your belief lie about everything to do with their lives, you refuse to accept the reality of your monotheistic controlled governments constantly waging war on all and sundry based on lies.

How can you say you have a good belief when the only ones benefiting are the churches, leaders and elite followers. You don't see poor churches, just poor followers, leaders of your belief are fully provided for luxuriously, whilst their followers are constantly drained to prop up a failed belief.

Get a grip Philo, you and your ilk just grasp at straws in your attempt to categorise people, whilst non believers, only have to see the world example, to categorise monotheism as a violent and destructive lie.

"English please! Your last post resembles a random word generator"... Mocked in lyrics mode Bennie. "Who needs English? Rabid anti-Semites get their point across even with a word generator"... interjected grumpy Dee. "I think you need to add less acid to your Kool-Aid (or possibly more)"... insinuated further John with a J. What certainly calls for the standing ovation, resounding in the circumstances of the lower-class Jew-lesser brethren dared intrusion into elitist Jew milieu, frequented by noble patricians of the heart wrenching aristocratic Jew gestures.

Now having said that, a very interesting would be to glance at the superior Zionists mentality. To see how they react, like a savage pack of the rabid dogs, when they sense that their connived interests being challenged. What was unveiled precisely via imperative exposé a propos Jew peace activists to receive hatemail from furious Zionist zealots. Reported in Guardian by Brian Whitaker ... http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,1126294,00.html

Portraying conscientious Jew activists incessantly faced harassment and intimidation via email and internet forums. Due to actively voiced opposition by Jew-lesser brethren versus racist Zionism and its brute onslaught against the humanity. Where for example Deborah Fink, a Jewish singer and music teacher (living in London) to receive all-of-a-sudden deluge of the hateful email (more than 150 in space of a week).

One came from New York's rabbi to inform her: "Your soul, my dear, is petrified and lost"... Another menacingly said: "Hitler killed the wrong Jews"... Still another ostensibly from a Jew doctor of medicine in the US, elaborated on a holocaust theme: "Too bad Hitler didn't get your family", it said. "With six million Jews dieing [sic] 60 years [sic] ago, it's a shame scum like you somehow managed to survive".

So what exactly had Ms Fink done to deserve such a vitriol? A short answer is that she was planning to sing, as Ms Fink is a member of the Just Peace UK. A mainly but not exclusively Jewish group, opposing Israeli junta occupation, while seeking a viable and sovereign Palestinian state. Alongside safe and secure Israeli colony, with Jerusalem as a shared capital.