tao,

>>Christianity is no different to Islam.<<

If that is your total perception of religious dogmas I don’t think I should try to explain the differences to you.

It also seems that you’ve made up your mind about the creator of the universe and are instead more comfortable with the fairies theory. Good luck. Let us know when you’ll lose your first tooth and when you’re ready for grownup school…then we’ll talk.

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Hey Alc.,

>>I'm not an atheist, nor am I against people of faith, just against the lies, deceptions and barbarity of monotheism.<<

Perhaps you should give us your version of theism instead of repeating the same useless pathetic attacks on anything remotely religious.

>>A secular state is one where religion has no say in state affairs, thats not the case here, the USA, Britain or anywhere monotheism holds sway.<<

Do you have any proof to that effect or is it just rant and more conspiracy hypotheses to reinforce your anti-religious opinion. Maybe there are more Christians in this secular world than you care to accept.

When asked what was the greatest hindrance to Christianity in India? Mahatma Ghandi replied: “Christians”.

You can blame Christians for anything and everything you like but that will not alter the facts and the truths. Like it or not.

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On subject – congratulations Irfan on your double century; (two articles with over 100 posts).

Perhaps what hurts more than telling lies is accepting the TRUTH.

I admire your determined effort to embellish Islam and blame the rest of the world for its predicament. Maybe one day someone will believe you.

Leo, if you want your posts taken seriously you need to avoid using loaded cliche-ridden stuff like "lower-class Jew-lesser brethren dared intrusion into elitist Jew milieu". I can only presume that by this you mean that OLO is a Jewish-run forum and your posts have been derided as part of a Jewish conspiracy. I'm sorry, but your posts have been derided because they're rubbish.

There is, believe it or not, a difference between legitimate criticism of Israeli policies and anti-Semitism. I find far too much anti-Muslim sentiment in this forum, but I dislike misinformed prejudice of all colours. If you really need to express these opinions I suggest you might try here http://www.stormfront.org or possibly here http://www.radioislam.org/ .

Philo, as I said, I don’t necessarily agree with everything the alchemist writes. No doubt he does sound harsh to you because he is criticizing what you believe in. And, he probably makes some unjustified statements.

The point I was making was that by saying that he is attempting to “control people with his beliefs” is an unfounded accusation. How could the alchemist control people by expressing his beliefs on this forum? Perhaps you are attempting to control people by expressing your beliefs.

You said “The signs of a liar are:
1.They misrepresent and degrade their opponents with emotive hostility.
2.They exaggerate facts with emotion they believe benefit their political position.

Both these examples indicate lies in the guise of argument.”

Then you said “Your misrepresentation and exaggerations are a deliberate attempt to lead astray or degrade those of faith”. Perhaps the alchemist really believes what he says, therefore he is not misrepresenting or exaggerating at all. You assume he is lying just because you don’t see the world his way.

Your use of the term “deliberate attempt to lead astray or degrade those of faith” implies that only those of faith are right and those who openly disagree are evildoers. This rests on assumptions inherent in your world view, which are not present in the world view of others, but which colour the way you interpret everything.

You are allowing your beliefs, prejudices and emotions into the debate.

As I said, you had better get that tree trunk out of your eye before you take issue with the speck in others’ eyes.

Comparing what you perceive is your Christlike existence with what I presume you consider hypocrites is not very Christian. Judge not, lest ye be judged etc.

And remember that Jesus said not to pray in public where everyone can see you, but go into your room where only God can see you.

In other words, stop preaching and judging on this forum and go to your room Philo!

Coach,

Good to see you recognise Christianity as a religious dogma. Perhaps there is hope for you yet.

I haven’t made up my mind about the creator of the universe because there isn’t one – or at least there is no evidence of one.

Can’t you see that my fairy theory was an illustration – and I don’t really believe it? Oh that’s right there is as much evidence for the fairy theory as there is for your theory – so you would think I was as serious about mine as you are about yours.

You wrote to the alchemist: “Do you have any proof to that effect or is it just rant and more conspiracy hypotheses to reinforce your anti-religious opinion.”

So I ask you “do you have any proof” of your theory or is it just rant and mumbo jumbo to reinforce your religious belief? I doubt you’ll be able to answer in the affirmative, so will not even try.

Now back to earlier comments which I ran out of space to deal with.

You claim that the ME conflicts are a religious/political campaign which is above our “humble” comprehension. Speak for yourself. Just because you believe God moves in mysterious ways which we mere humans have no hope of comprehending, is no reason to assume that others have the same comprehension problems caused by the fog of religion. I don’t pretend to know everything about it, but the ME conflict is a man made conflict with a man made solution.

Your religiousity colours your view of the world. You are so obsessed (as Philo would say) with your religious myth, that you can’t imagine there are any more important issues at stake than a religious war. Perhaps you can’t see for the tree trunk in your eye.

With regard to your un-Christian anti-Islam comments generally I say – let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Christianity doesn’t exactly have a spotless history.

Thanks Tao, your assumptions are right regarding monotheists.

Coachy, My version of theism's the same as monotheism, did you miss that over the last hundred posts or so.

Governments controlled by the followers of god, are non secular states. Those enslaved in illusion see only illusion, anything else is beyond their comprehension. Would one explain the theory of fusion energy to a one day old child and expect them to understand. So why explain reality to those of infantile, fearful minds.

Look at the insane direction those in power are taking the world and what their beliefs are, thats reality. You'll find few politicians in this country not believing in god. Monotheism is at war within all its factions, its logical political monotheists would also be at war, as they're one and the same. They're waging war against the people, just as their religious brethren are doing around the world culturally. They feel they're superior and only they count, typical monotheism. Name a current war or conflict not involving monotheists as perpetrators.

Your problem is you've no idea what I believe, nor where my experience or understanding comes from. You face the problem of finding a way to block out the reality of the expression and application of those following your god provide, as the evidence continues to grow around you. How do you think these politicians get there, your kind blindly vote for them, all factions.

I'm against monotheism because its destroying the world, as it's been since its sordid inception. It's steeped in violent despotic barbarities against all living things on the planet. Your belief system is based on lies, as a pretext to wage war on everything, destroying it as you go. You have no other alternative but to attack people personally, no other option but violence, its the backbone of your entire life. None of your factions can live in peace, even fighting each other of the same faction, you call that sanity, I call that a despotic mental addiction. But god loves you, doesn't he?

It is easier to continually destroy others arguments rather than put a positive case together for your own position, especially when you do not have a position of worth. So by continually misrepresenting others position with lies and blatent infantile bashing in an attempt to create fear and hostility in the listening public is a precurser to war - North Korea is an example.