Nicky, ok I will give you a break! You are free to check out
the MLA budget and explain to me where I am wrong.

Footage of what? Of bad practise in the ME? Were they
Australian livestock? Isn't it time that somebody did something
to improve things there?

Popping an odd sheep into a car boot happens all over rural
Australia. Cutting sheeps throats without a stungun happens
all over rural Australia. Umm and what now? You cityslickers
are clearly so far out of touch with the real world, its quite
amusing.

Right now we have some Fremantle based animal libber group,
spending money on newspaper ads and billboard ads, trying to
shock the public about live exports. At the same time we have
local processors pleading with Govt to allow them to bring in
a few more workers for their plants from overseas, as Aussies
don't want the jobs and cattle are waiting for months in drought
conditions to get slaughtered, due to lack of staff.

Heyyyy, what about planet reality here!? In 2005 tens of
thousands of cattle and hundreds of thousands of sheep were
trucked across Australia, as there was no slaughter capacity
in WA to cope. Now we have a few idiots suggesting that another
3 million sheep should not be exported, when we cannot even
process our few sheep and cattle here now, Govt won't allow us
to bring in the workers. Do these fanatics have any common
sense at all?

Nicky I agree. Donated funds should not go to farmers. Money should never be the only incentive for welfare friendly farming. I acutally find the notion a little insulting - or maybe its just that I am fiercely independant and dont want anyone else to be able to take any of the credit for what I do.

It is a good point though, when free range becomes popular will pigs just be turned out into paddocks to cash in on the demand? Luckily growing pigs is very different from other livestock. If not managed properly they will not be acceptable for the market and there is a very small window of opportunity in regard to how old they can be, how much fat they lay down etc. They must be grown well or there will be no profit for the farmer.

Did anyone else besides Cilivia sign the pro pig pledge? http://www.savebabe.com/pledge There was on option to recieve the action pack (free) I got mine and it is fantastic. A well made CD on intensive farming (done with permission) and a set of postcards to send to friends and supermarkets. All for professionally done. Great use of donated funds I would have to say.

The same R&D grants happen in the pig industry. I dont see any of it going towards alternate systems - just more or less how can we cram more pigs into a smaller area and how can we force them to grow even faster. Or how we can build export markets. Thats so frustrating when the biggest problem the australia pork industry has is competition from cheap imports. or am I just missing something.

Yabby
I agree- people who donate to certain groups, whether animal welfare organisations or churches should have the right to know what is happening with their money.
Some organizations make it clear, for example when WSPA is asking for donations to rescue bears in China, I would trust that this is what the money is being used for.

I agree with PF that the AA action pack does look very professional and it’s good that they have used the money wisely to create it, but they have been around since 1980 and collected donations all this time so they should have something to show for.

Nicky,
I really hope the great campaigns AA are running will do good- although I think TV ads would reach a much bigger group of people.
It’s time that the public got to see the truth, over and over again, about how pigs are being treated on most farms.

Some animal sites show their success stories on their website, such as WSPA.
I think it is important to let the public know what every animal group have achieved.

PF
“Our system takes a lot more time and effort but the welfare of the pigs is that important to us.”
Admirable!

No insult intended (re: the funding aid)- I've been under the impression (probably through programs on TV) that farmers are generally struggling and that money would be the main reason that they cannot convert to free range.

But if it's not the money aspect that is holding farmers back to convert, then what are the actual problems with it- is it just, as you say, the more intensive labour that is holding farmers back?

Are there other aspects that hold farmers back from converting to free range farms? E.g.:

Do intensive pigfarms make more money than freerange pigfarms?

Or would it be the need for more land perhaps?

Specialised knowledge- need for more education and is this easily available?

Is the draught a bigger problem to freerange farmers than to battery farmers?

Or do some farmers simply not care enough?

Other reasons?

IMHO Celivia intensive farming is lazy farming.

I saw an interview recently at a large piggery and they only employed 2 people.

Free range is more labour intensive and requires very different management techniques. Not just management of the pigs, but also the land they graze on.

FR pigs still need grain, they cannot eat pasture alone because of their high protien requirements. The other point is that pigs locked in close confinement do not expend a lot of energy and therefore grow faster and cost less to produce. (apart from the feed additives)

I cell graze my pigs so that they benefit my land not destroy it. There will be large areas that, thanks to the pigs, will never require chemical fetilizers to grow crops. The benifits to the environment (and my bank account) are enormous.

FR farming needs a whole new mind set. I would like to see that family farm that is struggling to make it, take up a small herd of well cared for pigs and be able to make a living, look after the welfare of their animals, make a contribution to the enviroment and end the greed and cruelty of intensive farming. I suppose I am saying it needs a holistic approach.

I hope I didnt offend you with my comments about money. The best thing that can happen is public awareness. I have had so many emails since this campaign started from people that just did not know. Like I have said before, create the demand and farmers will convert. If we join that with the Humane Choice label, welfare for pigs cannot lose.

Ok to add my 5c worth here :)

PF, you are clearly an intelligent lady who knows lots about
free range pig farming. There are also plenty of small
farms looking for a livelyhood out there. Yet there is very little
information in the rural press about free range pig farming.

What say you write a book about the subject, there should
be a great market out there with all those treechangers
etc.

Voiceless or similar could help fund the first print run
for you and promote it as an alternative to intensive
farming.

Sheesh now there is a good idea :)

PF
No offense taken at all ;) You were just expressing your opinion.
Thank you for your great answers. It’s just so good to have a farmer on here, it’s much, much appreciated.
Yes sheesh Yabby- what a brainwave- now that IS a good idea!
PF you have a wealth of knowledge and experience which are very much worth sharing.
A book like this would be a wonderful use of donations.
It would also save you from having to anwer all these separate emails and questions, you could include them in the book.
I would certainly buy it out of interest, even though I’m a city slicker ;)
Perhaps there could be a FR farmers series, apart from PF writing one on pigfarming, a free range chicken farmer could write one as well.

A good publisher may be able to help in giving advice about the outlay, chapters etc.
Something to think about anyway- you have to have time to write as well.