Hello Everyone.
Yabbs first. Yabby the position of Australian Muslim Leaders in regards to live exports remains unchanged. They have reported time and time again there is no reason why Australia can not be the hub of Halal meat world wide. They are opposed to long unnessary hauls and prefer all Animals to live a good life before Slaughter.
That marries with the other 96 percent of Australian People.
So that much is black and white.

The [now] position of AFIC is that there is no proof one is kinder than the other- [ bolt stun slit throat].
This is of a great dissapointment to us and some what of a surprise.
There is preshure from other countries not to pre stun.Of course the almighty dollar does come into it.
This debate is about the use of pre stunning.

Celivia Thank You for your informative post. There is a very special Vet working in the Neverlands who has with the help of others done much. Of course we need AnimalWelfare reps in Parliment.

Belly Your post is not rational stg - same.
Feeddriver - Why Do you agree with PF- because she is correct.

Izzo We work with many good farmers. What you posted is untrue.
Dickie Your comments are always welcome and your efforts to improve animal welfare over along period of time are noted.
However PF is absolutly correct. There has been FEW farmers that have consistly posted on threads to improve Animal Welfare.- Too Few.
She is a good example of what all farmers should be.

We are of course to now consider our position. It was a huge step foward to work with Muslim leaders regarding live exports.
However I cant say I agree with no pre stunning.
We are discussing this with AFIC.
I think its time we all turned our eyes to the AVA.
Australian Vetinary Association.
It is worth mentioning that some people really honesty think slitting the throat quickly is kinder.

How say the AVA?. I think Dr Wirth of the RSPCA has made it clear for years he does not agree.

"There is a very special Vet working in the Neverlands who has with the help of others done much.

We prefer to work in the real world.

"The [now] position of AFIC is that there is no proof one is kinder than the other- [ bolt stun slit throat].
This is of a great dissapointment to us and some what of a surprise.

Why is it a surprise? How would you prove anything about pain?

"However PF is absolutly correct. There has been FEW farmers that have consistly posted on threads to improve Animal Welfare.- Too Few.

Maybe they are too busy being farmers and can't wait half an hour for the page to load.

Pale, what Australian Muslim leaders think, really does not matter.
96% of the Australian people don't have the foggiest about the
live trade, neither is it an election issue. The buyers matter,
they are Muslims. The animals matter. The farmers matter, they
own the livestock and should be paid a fair price for them.

Things are so bad in the local meat industry at the present time,
that when one company tried to upgrade some plant, they bought
it from a Thailand manufacturer, which included installation.

When the specialists applied for 457 visas, so they could come
and install the equipment, Mr Andrew's Dept rejected them.
So that gear is sitting in the yard, unistalled, doing nothing.

I'm starting to wonder if the Immigration Dept has some meat
industry hating veggies in there somewhere.

Yabby

Umm, Now there`s food for thought- Funny as. Are you talking about the plant in WA? I thought that had been approved.

I think you may find its their GATS "protection plan." Its protect the trade dollar all costs".


The only time I got a three page letter from Mark Vailes office was five years ago.
It went into great detail to tell me there would never be staff for abattoirs allowed through the GATS.
Considering its the only trade other than prostituion not allowed to engage staff that way one can only think its to protect their buddies in the live trade.
As for the no pre stunning that is something that JAKIM will have to address.

They should remember this- there is always somebody trying to take over any business. Meats no different.


You talk to any old meat worker and he will tell you its all cruel but he will pick the bolt over the stun gun anyday.

The stun gun was a comprimise which works pretty well most of the time.
Muslims have approved the use of stun guns so why go back to the dark ages.
I should think the AVA would have little difficulty to show that but as they are paid by the Government I guess we had get our own few thousand vets to disclose the kindest method.
AFIC are now saying there is no proof its more cruel than the stun gun.
I think they are going to have to show that. What a pity. There was a huge oportunity for Australia to become the hub of Halal to the expense of the live trade.


Antje and I went to the shopping center the other day. All of the food outlets were Halal. Its time the Government passed a law for everybody to disclose what the product is.

Some people might like to only buy from Australian Slaughtered methods.

I think its their right to know.


Not happy Jan!

PALE – I hope you don’t believe for one minute that halal is available from so many outlets because retailers believe it is a humane method of slaughter? No, most of those retailers are simply trying to cash in on halal and draw in more customers and probably charge a premium for the meat as well. For those that have been ignorant enough to believe that halal was in the interest of the welfare of the animal, the truth is now being revealed and it remains to be seen how many of those retails take halal off the shelves scared of consumer back lash.

Freedriver,
I agree that Peta are a bunch of extremists, as are a few other animal organisations. That doesn’t mean they are always wrong; sometimes they can provide good information or encourage people to do the right thing.
For example, Animals Australia says that killing animals without stunning is illegal under federal laws and encourage people to send emails to the ministers who can help stop this cruelty. http://www.animalsaustralia.org/features/time_to_get_angry.php

I do not belong to any group because I usually do not agree with all of the policies of a particular group, but I do like some of the things that some of the groups have to say.

If AVA does not do anything about this cruelty, I wonder what all the vets who are not AVA members think about this and whether they can do something.

Izzo,
“how on earth does this "political party" in the Netherlands police the "raised humanely" bit? ” I think they are just anti-intensive/battery farming and pro-free range. Not sure of the exact date, but around 2010 there won’t be any caged chickens allowed throughout the countries of the UN, and the rules for transport of live animals have changed also, e.g. no more than 9 hours traveling and buyers must buy from the nearest producer. I am not sure of the way this is going to be policed. In circumstances where the distance are greater than 9 hours travel, the animals need an overnight break and be able to graze somewhere before they continue their journey. In that case, I think that they need to sign in and out of the overnight place. Sorry I do not have more knowledge about it, I just remember bits and pieces from randomly reading little news releases from the Party for the Animals.

PALE,
is there a website of that vet? Just interested to look at it and what they have done.