Celivia....how on earth does this "political party" in the Netherlands police the "raised humanely" bit? Sheep can be bought and sold several times over before it gets to the dinner table, how on earth would they know?

Sounds as ridiculous as the "organic grain" many of you probably buy and pay top dollar for. Next time you fork out your big dollars for "organic" think about this: we have a neighbour who grows grain for the organic and mainstream food industry....and guess what the difference in the production is - NOTHING. It is all sprayed with chemicals, planted with fertilizer, harvested by the same header and transported in the same truck. There are no pre-requisits, no checks, no testing - nothing...the mill he sells it to divides it and sells half as organic and half as normal....why isnt there any checks etc you may ask? because it would cost a fortune and the end consumer wouldnt pay what the inevitable price would be.

PF

It's hard to believe you are criticising only the Halal method of slaughter (though inhumane) when you fail to allude to the heinous practices of our very own industry in Australia.

In fairness to the posters on this thread you should also inform them of our "civilised" methods where we use the poison 1080 to kill feral animals. Some take days to die in agony.

Then perhaps you should alert them to the ignominious practice of intensive pig farming where sows are incarcerated in cages so tiny that to feed its young, the nipples must protrude through the cage rungs.

You and I have debated previously, the Australian method of sterilising cattle. Shove your hand up the cow's back-end and slice her ovaries off to drop in her belly before sending her packing - no anaesethic!

Of course we have the issue of battery hen farms - totally gruesome, the practice of debeaking, and the ongoing mulesing of sheep without anaesethics. Then we have the castration practices - again - no anaesethics!

I commend you for alerting readers to the inhumane practices of other cultures. However, I believe, that you as a farmer, also have an obligation to thoroughly alert readers to our own inhumane treatment of other species in this "civilised" nation.

You know: "People in glass houses.................!

Yes dickie we have HAD that conversation before no point rehashing all that now is there. This is not another veggie argument.

People in glass houses dickie? You presume way too much.

They point here is whether or not we should lower our animal welfare standards in the name of religion. Yes I am a farmer and send animals to slaughter every week at a licensed abattoir that stuns my animals before they are slaughtered. Yes I have followed them through the line and watched it happen to assure myself that it is the most humane method possible.

Apart from whether or not you believe it is ok to let the animal just bleed to death while conscious, what sort of struggle would have to go on before these animals were even stuck? Do we start slashing their tendons to control them? How much extra stress are you prepared to put on these animals? And all in the name of Allah? The meat quality must be awful.

So dickie, what is your stand on this, you don’t actually say you seem more interested in condemning me personally.

PF

I have never condemned you personally, though it is hard to convince you of that.

I am well aware that you treat your animals as humanely as possible though you and other opponents on animal welfare threads seem intent in turning debates into a bun fight.

Obviously you didn't pick up on my post where I alluded to the Halal method of killing as "inhumane." However, I am more familiar with the cruel treatments perpetrated by Australians on Australian animals.

Therefore, I remain firm - we must endeavour to clean up our back yard first whilst remaining vigilant of the cultural practices of some countries who want to continue them here. That also includes the practice of cock fighting. Similar to our industries in Australia and our scyophantic governments, they appear oblivious or indifferent to the inhumane practices in which they engage!

Actually there isn't a great deal of difference. We commit acts of barbarity on other species for maximum profit - middle easterners commit them in the name of religion!

Freediver wrote ~

""A bullet between the eyes is the most humane."

It's not very practical. Except maybe if you're out in the middle of a field. It doesn't always work as effectively as you would expect."

I wasn't suggesting that as a solution. I was saying that IS the most humane (if done by a professional), but obviously not the most practical in the slaughter house

Izzo I thought it was illegal to slaughter meat at home (ie without a licence etc), or is just for personal consumption?

StG, practical restrictions will always limit what is done. A bullet does not necessarily eliminate suffering. Who knows how long bits of the brain live on, experiencing pain etc? It would be far more humane for example to blow the head of entirely with an explosive that completely mashes the brain. Not practical however. Then there's lethal injection, which takes a bit longer but may also involve less pain. The whole problem is that there is no objective way to measure pain. And is pain the only thing that matters? What about stress? If you could save the animal a lot of stress with a bit more pain, would it be worth it?