Every word could have been mine Joe, Loudmouth.
I think the war I speak of has to be fought.
At first with our own, in verbal form, to stop the paper surrenders.
And with the Militant and just plain lier like the whole country of Pakistan.
Our chances of winning that? unknown.

But in time we will win, if we do not bend to the PC and uninformed.
I question the death of anyone in the name of any God Myth.
And the Subjugation of whole peoples by the hierarchy of these non existent Gods.
Bazz in fact it is an every day every hour event, a gift of middle ages bigotry.

Hi Belly,

A belated happy birthday too, young fella :)

I'll be ten in dog years, in a month or so. Feel it too.

Cheers,

Joe

Finally a chance to reply more fully to some of the points raised in this thread.

I spent a delightful day at the Melbourne Show yesterday. The sun was out, spring was in the air, country and city folk were mingling, there were heads adorned with Akubras and hijaabs keeping the sun off, smartly worn RM Williams and saris competed for attention while young Asian students posed excitedly in front of their friend's iphones.

So many different faces studying here or making this land home. Made me damn proud to be an Australian.

This, according to Yabby, is 'Kumbaya culture', 'paper thin' with the 'laws of the jungle' just ready to pounce.

While I sat for lunch on the shaded steps of one of the pavilions there was a Muslim family comprising of three adults and four children who availed themselves of a section just below me. I remarked about the beautiful day and was rewarded with huge smiles all round. These were the people Belly would have me believe would step over my body if I suddenly suffered a medical emergency. These were the people Butcher wants to 'send back'. Indeed these were the children that some idiotic woman would have me believe want to behead me if I were to insult Allah.

Ludicrous!

I am of the firm belief that we have something pretty special in this country, something worth defending, something we should be proud of and celebrated. The question is from whom does this need defending? Is it a couple of hundred idiots in Sydney or seemingly thousands of scared, often racist, often ignorant people intent on stereotyping and fearmongering? It is hard to escape the overwhelming feeling it is the latter.

There would be very few Australians who didn't rightly get angry at seeing police getting assaulted in the manner they did, nor get quite disgusted at the sight of a child holding up that placard. Overt displays of religious fundamentalism in our mainly secular society are always dis-quietening. Runner's world view has few friends here, even among the more pious of OLO posters.

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Yet I'm not looking to send him anywhere.

I have talked to many people about the issue and only in a few have I seen the fear and stereotyping that is so broadly on display here.

Butcher, Jayb and Belly may be amongst the loudest trumpeters but look at the likes of Stevenlmeyer writing;

“In the not too distant future Indonesia, not Australia, will be calling the shots in this part of the world. So get used to treading carefully when it comes to Islam.”

“If I were an Egyptian Christian I'd definitely be making plans to make tracks.”

While not as overt in his stereotyping he certainly doesn't hold back on the fearmongering.

Anyway what do people really mean when they say Muslims have to learn to adopt our way of life if they want to be welcome in this country?

It would seem to many it is only by giving up the 'right' to be offended are we going to afford Muslims another right, that of being permitted to live amongst us.

What a crock!

As I have said people should be allowed to get offended by whatever they choose. The real truth of the matter is that many here are wanting the right to offend and this is quite different. They are quick to turn it into a question of free speech. But is it?

Some of us are old enough to remember a certain unforgettable Logie moment when our own Bert Newton said of Muhammad Ali “I like the boy!”. We may have felt the look on Bert's face when he realised his 'offence' was priceless yet no one questioned Ali's right to be offended. Would exercising that right make him unsuitable to live amongst us as an Australian? Of course not.

Danielle claims it is the threat of violence that makes all the difference and of course on a certain level it does, but what do you think would have happened if Bert had said “Suck it up N----r!, I'm standing by my right to offend you”.

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Another argument we have heard is this has nothing to do with Australia so why protest here at all? Australians have had a long and proud history of protesting at embassies whether it be about illegal whaling at the Japanese consulate, or Pacific nuclear testing at the French Embassy. In fact the French Consulate in Perth was fire-bombed over the issue, incidently one of the two charged was an Israeli-Australian.

In fact I would be more than supportive of an action outside the Pakistani mission in Canberra over the Minister's comments.

The next line touted is that the US government had nothing to do with the production or distribution of the movie trailer and because of their free speech laws were powerless to prevent its release. Besides which the producer was a Coptic Egyptian. Yet couldn't the former Afghanistan government have made a similar argument about a bunch of Saudi's hijacking some aeroplanes?

Ultimately in this case there are two main things we shouldn't be prepared to permit without condemnation, one is protester violence and the other is racists wrapping themselves up in our flag and misappropriate the words 'Advance Australia fair'.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/muslim-cult-leader-revealed-20120923-26f7s.html
Thanks Joe same to you when it comes around.
Csteele I read every word,still unable to hug you.
But yes I understand you do want a better world, so do I but it is not without struggle.
My link this morning only reports, it makes no choices just says what it knows.
Such is the anti , anything highlighting concerns with the Muslim community, links are left to rot on the vine, after all who wants to hear the other side?
There is the guts of the matter.
A MUSLIM, CONSTRICTED BY TEACHING WE ARE LESSOR CAN EASILY SEPARATE THEM SELVES FROM OUR WORDS AND THOUGHTS some do.
You by your total defense, defeat your self.
No race or creed can be defended as a whole.
I fear such folk as you, truth has no value, true change has no value, if defense at any price is the only outcome you will except.
I do not share rechtubs thoughts, not most of them, and about nothing jayb has or ever will say.
You are bright enough to know that.
But use the words they do to hide my thoughts.
I am unable to differentiate between your style and the worst in the radical Muslim world, truth is the first victim.