Bazz I don't know where you've read good reports on the thing, in motoring circles in the US it's a joke.

Obama's folly is one name they are calling it.

Hugely expensive, & with terrible depreciation, there have been a couple of fires of vehicles just sitting, & rumors of more not reported. The safety of the battery packs is now in question.

Sales are running at about 15% of projected volumes, & the production of the things has been shut down for 2 months to stop the building stock pile of unsold cars.

If you really want an electric car, build your own. The things are so expensive, & depreciation is so bad, only government or fools can afford the factory ones. Even the best of them will cost $4500 to $5500 a year, sitting in the garage.

An electrical engineer near here built one on a Datsun ute. Put an electric motor in the engine bay, & filled the tray with led acid batteries. Even with a paint job it cost only $6000 to build, & has run for some years now, with just a change of batteries. Best of all, no depreciation.

I have run a 32 year old sports car for 12 years now. Cost about $7500 to buy & rebuild. It is worth more now, so no depreciation, & modern enough to give little maintenance problems.

When ever there is an argument about cars around here I point out that her Mazda costs us about $3200 a year in depreciation, but my old sports car earns us about $320 a year in appreciation. It's so peaceful when you're getting the silent treatment.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/big-polluters-convinced-carbon-price-is-here-to-stay-20120704-21hix.html
Here is a link not from Labor.
But from the industry that is taxed.
In it you can not avoid the truth.
It is extraordinary, almost unbelievable.
That so very many have bought the negativity of not just Australia's puppet to Republicans.
But the bought, paid for, no less than propaganda of the extremely rich and powerful.
The link says Abbott[his replacement] will remove the tax, but within just a few years- it will be put in place again.
I strongly think that prediction, by 2020,will be by an ALP government.
Such will be the fall of Republicanism in its own country.
And the Abbott Ponzie schemes death here, as promises made vs promises kept weights down the hearts and minds of Australians.
We should look back on these days as what they are.
Fraudulent pea and thimble side show politics.

Belly the worst lie you ever tell is the one you tell yourself.

Yes I know that Labor in government has recently been a disaster, & the voters have forgiven & forgotten in about 10 years. This time the results have been worse. The memory will last longer, & there is no pool of young new factory workers & labourers from whom to recruit new voters.

I think you & those like you are going to have to work much harder than last time to rehabilitate your party.

Good luck with it, I hope you succeed. We do need a good Labor party, probably more than ever in todays world.

Both Belly's and Hasbeen's points are very well made.
There's no doubt that the Coalition has moved to the Right and are certainly looking to the Republican party for strategy if not ideology.
That makes room for a centre party that believes in both fundamentals:
> Free Enterprise; and
> Social Justice.
The Coalition have staked out a position that says that the economy is more important than people. That approach will make for a strong economy but tends to ignore real suffering. We're seeing that already in the slash and burn approach that Campbell Newman is taking in Qld.
On the other hand, we are seeing the Greens as being ideologically pure re social justice, but utterly naive about economic reality. They would have us pure as the driven, but nationally bankrupt.
To me Labor's past greatness has been it's struggle to find a balance between the two, e.g. doing things like lowering tariff's which made Australia a great free enterprise competitor while also developing strong social policies.
I think the majority of Australians are somewhere not terribly far from the political centre.
If Labor can credibly present itself as representing that middle ground, (which it did very successfully under Hawke), then it has a great future.
Labor's current problems in my view stem from looking to focus groups and polls for direction, instead of the timeless principles of creating a wealthy, yet fair and just society.
New party anyone?
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

@Hasbeen,

<<there is no pool of young new factory workers & labourers from whom to recruit new voters>>

I think you’re only seeing it from one angle, Hasbeen.

Belly is a typical old style Labor supporter.
No doubt, he's worked hard all his life, and paid his own way.
And does what he sees is good for the country.

If our industries fizzle that type of Labor support will diminish.

However, there is another (new) type of Labor supporter (or, more often, Green supporter).
These on the whole have never had a real job the their lives.
They rely on the govt either indirectly or directly for their upkeep.
And think they owe allegiance first and foremost to the UN.

This second group will expand exponentially.
And they will elect a good number of Green-Labor coalition govts of the future –leastways, till they completely cede our sovereignty to the UN

Belly,

The issue with a price on carbon has been between going along with the rest of the world and our competitors with regards price and timing, or going far far ahead of the rest of the world. The coalition has always stated that it would be prepared to put a price on carbon that reflected the international movement.

Presently among the major polluters ie, the Americas, India, and China, there is no national price on carbon. In Europe it is about $9 on 90% of emissions (or an average of 90c). In Australia the price will start at $23 and continually rise, the largest economy wide tax in the world.

That many industries believe that there will be a price on carbon in 2020, does not mean that any of them approve of Australia's massive tax, or believe that it will look anything like what we have now.

The Labor party decades ago was very different from the grubby, power hungry, incompetent, and ethically challenged mob we have today. The world has moved on from the organised labour base of the 70s and 80s, and Labour needs to separate itself from the death grip of the unions (who now represent only a tiny fraction of workers) and stop trying to fight battles from a different generation. To become relevant, Labor needs to focus on the needs and desires of this generation who are only prepared to support moral crusades if someone else pays for them.