the current 'debate'..mainly is julia disputing tonies number
so lets think who released the topic without revealing the numbers

julia thinks its so clever to keep the numbers secret
her back room guys no doudt advise her not to reveal them
so we can name call numeric ignorance

then later say we told you the numbers klast time
the same numbers tony grasp's with
he didnt make them numbers up

the global warming/cooling thing
ok lets believe it is true...and it really is changing
its being changed by grenhouse gasses..ALL OF EM
NOT JUST THE EASY ONE TO TAX

mining coal releases methane
but tony loves the miners..so wont score that point

farming creates nitrous oxide
so tony wont bbe playing that card neither

home composting generates more methane that cattle
so the greenies wont be seeking a tax on that methane neither

how is this a debate?
be honest now....HOW?

there is only one villan here..
its all blamed on carbon..the scape goat that we all can get taxed on
[but some will make a proffit...[guess who..it wont be you

yet we have carbon dioxide in our dayly bread
we have it in the sugery drinks rotting out our kids teeth
even our grog wine booze ferments..co2

but we will only vilify and tax
part of the REAL problem

cant you jokers see the joke

will we get jobs taxing volcanoes
or shutting down the sun

where is the spain JOBS
now the jobs done?

we are being conned
why cany you wake up?

there shall only be ..some causual jobs
putting up the windmill or solar cells
built in china or germany..

then they fail
[they only have a 20 year life]

and we begin all over again..
but made more polution because of lies
we have lies upon lies..only fools think it will work out 'fine'

so the great lies fail
the colluded..green evolution[experiment]..
that cost us the world...FAILS

then we all die
just because we believed the sky was falling

I was not referring to bill shorten, my references were to the 70,s
Bill shorten is a moderate, and will be a leader.
I wouldn,t give you 2 bob for the greens, hopefully they will self destruct.
The sm is something different, not your average joe.
I can,t get past the fact that we have a PM, that needs backing. Personally i want a carbon tax, change will not take place with-out it.
The first carbon free units are up for sale in melbourne today.
Change will happen with a push.
People go on about just another tax, or our contrabution to carbon is not worth worrying about, is short sighted. [ carbon free units ]
Change will not cost you anything, if you keep ahead of the game.
Instead of putting a 4 wheel drive on top of the mortgage, put solar on the roof of your house. It will be more power efficient and more value for money. My last power bill for 90 days was 42 cents / day.
A pollution tax is certainly in the right direction.

The only ones I see in self destruct mode are the 2 big political dinosaurs, Labor and Liberal Parties. Remember The Greens are coming to a parliament near you. Every election we grow bigger and stronger, gaining more and more political influence. The winds of political change are starting to blow, might only be a gentle breeze today, but they may well be a tornado tomorrow! We are not here to reek political havoc on Australia, there are others who will do that. With our core beliefs of ecological sustainability, grassroots democracy, social justice and peace we are a very real alternative to the old parties with their old ideas, pandering to vested interests and not thinking of what is best for this great country of ours.

Paul,

The greens are a breath of fresh air for the coalition. By stripping the Labor party of voters on the left wing and getting Labor to break its promises to its voters, Labor is losing the centre.

With friends like the greens, who needs enemies.

Paul 1405, fortunately for Oz & its real people, the Greens are in the process of doing a Democrats.

Yes they are growing support, as did those Democrats, but their problem is the same. Once they get big enough they will start to come under real scrutiny by many of their voters, who currently have some idealized vision of what they are.

Once these voters see who & what the Greens really are, they will desert them in droves, just as they did the Democrats.

Hang on tight mate, it will be a bumpy ride, but the end is in sight.

My spin, may as well label it that. My spin is no less real than the opposing views.

PM Gillard should never had made the remark she did, I think on two occasions. It was a stupid remark, as she was quite clear that she would be developing a policy that involved a charge on carbon. She, by her statement let herself open to accused of lying in the future.
I seem to recall that the Greens were calling for a carbon tax as a temporary measure for months. The Greens wanted the tax in the short term leading to some type of ETS. Labor had rejected the Greens call, as they believed an ETS as the appropriate solution.
I do believe at that time, PM Gillard did not see the carbon tax as an option. Labor was still intending that some type of ETS was the solution to climate change. PM Gillard in her launching speech only mentioned climate change in a paragraph or two. There was an angry public outcry that Labor was ignoring climate change. As a result of this, PM Gillard stated that Labor's climate change policy involved a charge on carbon.