Interesting questions Paul.
Well while conservatives slant toward those with money, they won power by appealing to Labor voters.
I want Labor to first and most importantly be in government, not long term opposition.
We are radical, when needed, not on every issue.
To win an election we need more, not just a reliance on Conservatives having lost the plot.
We are long odds against being returned to office right now.
Mate you can not avoid it, only one Nation had more who distrusted them than voted for them.
Your question was wrong, the one, in return I ask you this, do you think more voters are radical than not, and to supplement do you think radicalism is likely to grow.
For Australia's sake both Labor and Liberal need change, leadership, direction, and policy discussion not just thrown out the door for us to fight over.
Like it or not,this very day endangers the government.
Riots on Christmas Island, inability to stop the boats, and not returning every rioter to country of origin tonight is hurting the ALP.
And the flea on its back some think is driving our failures the greens.
Tell me I am wrong, voters do not trust the government on this issue.
Tell me defending our team in any way changes voter intentions.
A minority controlling the senate is evidence we no longer need upper houses, hows that for radical?

Paul it seems I am not going to get my answers.
Yet while I understand your position, once thought as you do, nearly, my ideas are not treachery.
I lived in every one of those 23 years Labor had property rights on the opposition bench's.
I danced in the street as the big fella had us singing its time.
I cringed as some great deeds went under pile of rubbish, generated by maverick left.
Bob came along, the ever Bodgy no matter his hair color,he was both a massive ego, an opportunist ,who waited till both combative sides wanted resolution and won his spurs for very little.
But FAR better than his predecessor
On my very first ever paid job I earned in todays money one dollar,for a hard long 12 hour day.
Dad bought nearly 13 dollars a fortnight home.
We needed the light on the hill to dream on.
Work choices every type of pain, for workers, lives in the heart of conservative Australia.
Only by constant accountability, improvement,and modernization can the ALP achieve victory at the polls.
Do you see the promise Rudd made?
The resemblance between him and 1975?
Even the media is no different manufacturing storys or ignoring the wrongs on the other side.
continues.

While we do get independent candidates like Oakshot, Windsor, Haddon, a very worth while candidate in the coming NSW upper house.
While they win both popular vote and support we know it can be unhelpful.
They like the greens,inherit far too much power for the amount of votes they get.
See the HATE aimed at them, understand these same people if in coalition with the conservative coalition would be championed in the Parliament and media.
ALP must fight on its own the failures of media to highlight in the screaming headlines our faults generate, Abbott's history of untruths.
It would be a lie, to avoid the radicalism of the greens, a union that every day,in every action defames the movement,has latched on to your party.
Its proud boast? see its web page! Australia's only radical union.
Radical converts to pure criminal in my view.
Greens ARE NOT CONSERVATIONISTS ask middle Australia what they think.
IF labor is to recover it must first confront your leader and your party, just maybe this Saturday coming is a water shed, how will the Greens go in NSW?
We will see.
A party can have all views but must act for most or fall.

A minority controlling the senate is evidence we no longer need upper houses, hows that for radical?

A minority controlling the parliament is evidence we no longer need a parliament hows that for radical?

Is your line 'If we don't have control then we don't need it.'
I'm with you on one point we don't need upper houses so called 'houses of review' They are a hang over from the times when those who controlled society said "We'll give them their democracy but we'll make sure we have the final say." By nature upper houses still tend to be conservative. Labor is only in power thanks to 1,600,000 Green voters, don't forget that.

Paul I get no joy in the hurt I see in your post.
I hardly think our Senate can be compared with the house of Lords.
As you would know Queensland a very Long time ago got rid of its upper house.
And you are aware why I believe it worth while.
Upper houses see people like rev Fred Nile, and a hand full of such get power.
And from a vote of about 12% not 15, the greens get the balance of power.
Without upper houses your power base would be one federal lower house member, I can live with that, but how many first preferences did he win?
Labor is in power because it got the greens on side and independents, one of whom won his seat from third in first preference votes.
Should 85% of those who voted last time, be told by those represented by 15% of the vote, to except your party's views?
Labor and Liberal are looking drastically bad.
But my party, in my view best of a bad bunch[ not in NSW] will be in opposition for some time, if we let the pup on our back wag our tail.
Brown needs to learn to contribute, to deal, to hear more than his own sides thoughts and ideas,he is no better use to his party without that than Abbott to his.