John 13
12When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. 13"You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. 15I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16

He also said:
11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep

Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 21 September 2005 8:22:46 AM

Celiva I found this posted by David Bozo on another post.
I thought you might like to put it up the top of your Forum.

Maybe later we could open another forum. Main Stream groups verses extreme Animals Rights Groups
I would be good to get a few of these people on record for the public.
Alchemist I glanced at your name posted buy didnt read your comment Not to be rude but I am busy as buggery.
This forum was to show up the christians and Church Leaders. I think Celivia and Scout have done that. Who knows from here where it will go. Perhaps a public debate with insight or similar. Maybe some good old fashioned public speaking outside the Churches ,in streets like the lord did.

So as much as you dont agree with the RSPCA main stream approach to eating meat perhaps you could adopt yourself to speaking to Church groups. By the way do you go to the same Church as David.?

No dont answer that I just remembered you dont belive in god either.

As I said your one of those who lives on a higher moral groud to the rest of us. Go now and pass the plate to keep extreme groups in paid jobs and world travel.

Its like a cult and your certainly been brain washed.

I pity you living in the pain of hating people instead of helping them improve animal welfare

Alchemist.

I just read your post. umm Well if you are an x priest no wonder your bitter if you love animals. There is a wonderful lady in Germany like you. Her name is Chrita and she left the Church and now runs Animals Angles in several countries. I will post her email address should you feel like contacting her.

Listen the fast food chain is not animals but alternative meats made from Halal Vegetables. If you feel like lending a hand it would be great. We would like to have them on every street corner next to Mackas evenutally as a healthy alternative.

Alchemist we have to start somewhere to stop live exports.
Eventually and hopefully the alternative vegetable farms will take over from the meat. It will take time. Just imagine if oneday people are poring into the drive through for alternative meat burgers instead of Hungry Jacks. I am sure you would prefer that. No Animals should NOT be trucked around for days and murderded! it still makes me so angry.
Yep we will probably have some mood music I have a vet doing some studies on that right now. I cant lie to you and tell ypou we can build a plant on each corner. What I can say is we will Try!
If we stop them going on the death ships first and slaughter here THEN work really hard to introduce the alternative products and market them correctly we will reduce the numbers.
People will always! eat me. Hopefully after a long time people will eat more alternative products produced from vegetables.
Overseas will always want meat. The best we can try for is at least it goes in a box and not alive.
One day I hope the world eventually changes but we are trying to stop live exports first and set the animals free from the cruel intensive farms first.
One step at a time

ONE STEP AT A TIME

That is the very best we can do.

No blame.

No recrimination.

Just simply travelling towards our goals.

1. Set up new abbatoirs - within strict guidelines for humane slaughter (sorry alchemist).

2. Phase out live export - this can be achieved working with other countries - not against them - as Wendy is doing with Halal Meats.

3. Increase demand for freerange produce - tell your local supermarket what YOU want.

4. Eat more vegies - if you are unable to purchase the kind of meat you want, eat more vegetarian meals, better for you anyway. Everytime you are at the check out, leave a note for the manager that you aren't purchasing any meat until you are sure it is freerange and humanely produced.

5. When you go to church (if ANY Christians are still reading this thread) tell your minister about your concern for ALL god's creatures. Tell him what you are doing towards ethical treatment of animals.

6. Keep posting on this and the Animal Welfare thread

7. Get Up is currently conducting a survey to determine issues to hit the pollies with next Fed election. Fill out the survey - its free and will make a difference

http://www.getup.org.au/

8. Tell your friends, family - not only that you love them but you love animals too (in the non-biblical sense).

Thank you

"re Kangaroos This is one of the largest cruel mass slaughters in human history and condemned all over the world."

Ok, so better just to let them multiply ad lib, then let millions
starve to death in the next drought?

Re employing people, in a liberal democracy you cannot force them.
You can encourage them, cajoule them, whatever, but not force them.

There are plenty of people who simply don't want to work on a meat
chain. Just because you think its a good idea if they would, does
not make it so. If you try to force them, you will land up with
disaster.

Best you spend some time to find out what their aptitudes are,
what they enjoy doing, are passionate about etc and then find
them employment doing what they enjoy doing and also make a living
at it at the same time.

Wendy and Antje are not Hitler or Stalin! Just because you think
some people should work on a meat chain, means that those people
agree with you.

I think that this discussion thread is about to come to an end- we have noticed by now that Animal Welfare is not even a side dish on the Church's lavish table d'hôte.

I would like to thank everybody for their wonderful contributions.
I mean everyone.

Wendy, with her helpful and sometimes shocking information, Scout and her ability to look at the bigger picture and seeing the essence of it all, RObert, as an ex-Christian, for his very funny but amazng insight that Christians might think it's no use to save the environment as the end of the earth is overdue and souls need saving! (sorry RObert I let your own discussion go, I did lack time but will still read it) , Big-eyed-girl for showing us how wonderfully caring Christians can be and that there are luckily still Christian teachers out there who DO care about animal welfare, Yabby for his yabbyness comments, The Alchemist for being the atheist Alchemist and there are so many others who I haven't mentioned but deserve to be. There is not enough space to thank everyone.

I haven't been able to post much these last days, but will use this discussion as a well of information.

I will start a new thread on Fundraising ideas soon, which I plan to utilise to support animal welfare, but if successful I hope it will be helpful for other people's causes as well on their own way to improve our world.

I found a link to a book that hopefully might inspire a straying church leader to save a little space in his thought for the animals. Title: The Dominion of Love: Animal Rights According to the Bible (Paperback)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590560094/104-4729926-9925564?v=glance&n=283155

Thanks all!

No Celiva It is The Animals and us who thank You.

Yabby There are plenty of people who want not only to work on farms , abattoirs, and much more.
Had you even bothered to read the Halal Global Australian All Kind Meats Web Page you would have found the proposal offers so much than just a job.
Its offers a partnership in farms, abattoirs throughout Australia.

Its giving oportnunitys for aboriginal people to OWN part of a plant or farm. its giving jobs back to country towns such as plumber, electritian, packaging mechanical and the corner store. Its re opening all those country towns that closed down one bu one because of the only employment leaving. ABATTOIRS!
Dontb you worry about that we will get staff because they will be treated so much better than just staff. Many! will be co owners


As for Roos I happen to agree with you which is why the Roo Ranches with Aboriginal and regional area people are on offer too.
Roo plants as well with vaule adding smaller plants.

We have had meetings with people in the indudtry with a view to use only profeshional shooters and introduce silences.

oh and Yabby the farmers are actually paid per roo!

Thats another win win for the industry and improvement for animal welfare with farmers no longer maiming purposley so the animal crawls away and dies slowly from lead poising.

But Yabby regardless the old bucks will not eat in a drought its nature. They lay down and yes die slowly. So really there is no reason to cull its just humans excuse.
its a sad world for animals which really tests my strenght in my faith.
You are as aware as any of us the church leaders have stuff all interest in animal welfare. Ceilvia has vertainly made that a matter of record. on that at least you cant argue.