Alchemist
How dare you suppose to know the credibilty of others. I have spoken to Wendy and the RSPCA people she works with. She has and saved more animals from abattoirs than most have had meals. She spends her entire fortune on saving animals. If you have a place for a cow sheep goat horse dog cat or any other animals just say so.
Cant afford to pay for its feed or a vet she will.

You rubbish good people who are trying to stop the animals being sent alive overseas. If you really cared you would be happy for anybody to be pointing out to the public the cruelty. Intensive farming is a very cruel practise and the only answer is to at least make all farms free range again. The Church does have a part to play in Animal Welfare as leaders. She is with Scout showing the adverage person how little they care. Churches win elections. Elections made changes to acts!
I worked loading sheep on ships in WA. Its dam cruel.
Wendy cant stop people eating meat and she knows it.
She can try to make it kinder which is far more than what YOU are doing.
So you dont eat meat. Good for you.
I dont think you have the right to tell the whole world they must be like you however.
By the way and I might be saying too much here but I happen to know the one hundred percent of any investment through this project to stop live exports goes straight back into Animals.
She does not even pay the bills out of it.
I know because I have seen the MOU in place.
I hope you dont mind me letting that be known Wendy But Geez what a big mouth stupid B.
Get off your bum and do something intstead of telling people not to eat meat.
Do something to improve conditions knowing people will continue to eat meat world wide.
Until you do that do not rubbish the few people who are working so hard.
Shut up or put up.

R0bert

Thank you for your considered response. I agree with your analysis of the church. However, it has been worthwhile debating the issue here even if I simply confirmed my original opinion. The church is about saving something (souls) that may not even exist. It places a priority of what may not even be real over the here and now, over humane and ethical treament of all living beings, whether they be animals, human children, or for that matter women. I guess St Francis of Assisi was real aberration both in his time and even now - the church turns its back on enlightenment.

Anyway, moving on.

Pigfarmer has provided a fantastic link to a freerange website which explains a lot about what actually is free range and the difference to intensive farming.

http://www.freerangepork.com.au/

For people who are uncertain about freerange production, I urge you to check out this site.

As Wendy says, we need a national code of practice to bring our meat producers into the 21st century.

Humane farming is both economical and environmentally beneficial. And is achievable.

I was just listening to Ben Lee's music.

His song expresses everything I have been trying to say to the religious, so I thought I'd find the lyrics and post them here.

"We're All In The Together Lyrics

I woke up this morning this morning
I suddenly realised
that we're all in this together
I started smiling
'Cause you were smiling
And we're all in this together
I'm made of atoms
and you're made of atoms
And we're all in this together.
And long division just doesn't matter
because we're all in this together

I saw you walking
In the city
and we're all in this together
The city's changing
cause we are changing
and we are all in this together
every 12 seconds
someone remembers
that we're all in this together
In the kitchen of your rent control apartment

come on people i don't mean to rush you
i only wanted to reach out and touch you
I've got to start to open my heart

I know you think about jumping ship before it sinks
but we are all in this together
ask a scientist
it's quantam physics
we are all in this together
on the subway we feel like strangers
but we're all in this together
yeah i love you and you love her and she loves him
and we're all in this together

You know people there's never been protection
and all the history of human connection
come on darling its alright to show me
you dont ever need to be lonely
once you start to open your heart

I saw you crying
I started crying
cause we're all in this together
and religion is a big decision
but we're all in this together."

Clearly Ben Lee understands.

Benny grow up, its not the 0-20th century, it's the 21st. People thinking your way are a dying race, luckily (collapsing mental and physical health).

“By the way and I might be saying too much here but I happen to know the one hundred percent of any investment through this project to stop live exports goes straight back into Animals.”

Yep back into providing facilitates to slaughter more animals, but in comfort.

I don't need to defend my approach, nor efforts towards the living beings of this planet, to know me and what I do is the product of my example and what counts, to those in my care. This approach is insane and self defeating, all it will bring is more of what we have, more slaughter and more environmental destruction.

I accept, most people haven't evolved beyond barbaric gluttony. Yet I admire those who look after their animals during their lives, finally eating them. They take responsibility for their actions by giving their charges a natural and safe life. Evolving people have no need to restrictively enslave animals then slaughter them in their youth or prime, for barbaric monotheistic economic outcomes.

So the only rational approach to this problem is to take a path that gives the best outcome for all animals, the environment and the barbarians. Change to eating animals that suit the environment, easy to look after and provide a lean excellent meat.

The Australian kangaroo and other natives. All you need is water, bush and fences, no clearing, no chemicals fertilisers, no environmental destruction and lower infrastructure costs. It would increase viability of more land whilst retaining the natural environment, provide a unique and excellent healthy meat. If you want to be more barbaric, it would make a unique healthy export. What else could you ask for.

But its not about caring for animals is it, no its about religion and money.

Scout, my pleasure and thanks for your posts. I hope that input from a former insider helps.

The discussion has been interesting and I'm learning stuff as these threads grow. Hopefully it will make me more able to recognise opportunities to make better choices when I come across them.

That hopefully is part of the real value of these discussion, extra ideas for those of us who are unlikely to become activists but who do try and live responsibly.

My grocery shopping tends to be almost all Woolies because I shop at night after work and the small operators are closed then. Sometimes sunday morning markets for fruit and veges.

Cheers
R0bert

AlChemist.
Just one question.\
How are you stopping live exports?

So You tell us>
How are you! going to stop live exports?

Just answer the question please if you can possibly come down off your higher moral ground.

Your comments about Roos are actually sensible although I am sure they were not meant to be.

Given the choice of a clean bullet and a quick death I know what is kinder.

Anyway back to the task at hand.

You have had plenty to say about our work to stop live exports. OK Now you tell us how YOU are going to stop it.

What is it that You think you can do to stop! the people of the world eating meat?

Or do we just say oh well its cruel and we should not eat meat but there is nothing that we can do to at least STOP these poor animals going ALIVE?

Why dont you work with companies to estabish a chain on alternative fast food outlets like we are. Why Dont yu do something except rubbish what we are doing.

Certainly the Free range web page is great to see. I noted you agreed! with Pig Farmer.

Ok Then If you agreed with that we are just trying to do likewiswe with the animals that are at present going on these death ships.
Got A better idea. We are All Ears.?


Scout and Celivia A petition to AVA is the way to go.
Perhaps Alchemist can help with that.
As they say enough is enough. If there is no thing I agree with Dr Hugh Wirth RSPCA President on its that you cant talk with these extream people because they think that they are on a higher moral ground.
Unfortunetly its these extremists that get everybody from the farmers to the public and Government completly off side.
It is a fact that we live in the real world and not some fantacy world that they seem to delude themselves to.