Monotheism is an extremely self-centred belief, so there's no room for anything in their hearts but themselves.

Micheal4love states, “2) Again, I am not involved in any form of animal cruelty nor will I.”

Michael, you eat meat, dairies, haven't you visited a slaughter house, seen the enslaved in lot farms, or the barbarically tortured battery hens. You eat them, so your a party to slaughter by association. Keeping animals for gluttony is barbaric. You discriminate and abuse animals, by gorging yourself on their enslaved flesh and by products.

Graham Y,
“in fact, I'd say that on the basis of my training and upbringing that someone who was wantonly cruel to animals could not genuinely subscribe to Christianity. “
You don't class the above as wantonly cruel

“If you want to blame organisations for not getting involved in the animal welfare issues, why don't you pick on those organisations whose role it is to get involved in issues - political parties? “

No blame the people gorging themselves on animals for economic and personal greed. I liked you comments on there being a separation of church and state, that's not the case in reality But here is not the place, another thread may be needed for that topic.

When you can stand up and say, you don't abuse animals by exploiting them for your gluttony and avoid the abuse of animals for food. Until you see them as the most important aspect of biodiversity, you'll lack veracity in your claims.

Think of the billions of animals, insects and other wildlife killed when god goes to war against all and sundry. Monotheists have no hesitation in blowing everything up, they never think of the small wonderful creatures they destroy in the name of their despotic god. If the followers of god were so cool, why do they clear the land of all life then build a graven image (church) to ego trip in. Why not sit with the animals glorifying their existence and the nature around you. Simple Yahweh is the god of war, not an animals lover.

Scout

Your right and he knows it

The excuses we have had for years.

Dont knock yourself out girl. We have won

Churches should lead the way and us follow

We dont expect Churches being politically involved with everything under the sun and sit in Silence through all the 60 minutes reports and the other evidence that has been presented over and over again and say NOTHING.

SHAME SPEAK OUT AND LEAD THE WAY AGAINST CRUELTY TO GODS CREATURES

I noticed on the other Animal Welfare post you said to Celiva lets start another post to fund raise for the animals.

I think your current post is fantasic and somebody is at last showing them up.

You girls are making history.
Re fund raising.
Funds required TV adds exposing the churches
Funds for Legals to take the Federal Government To court to FORCE some LAWS, not codes of practice with are self regulated. Its not! been changed in one hundred years.!
The publicty alone would draw international media.
Did you hear Graham? little changes to the act in one hundred years!

My God what type of Christian leaders have we had!??
I work with the Lord. Not the Church.

We need to encourage everybody to support pale and hkm.
Soon we will deliver our report to Peter McGuargns office. Set meeting with him and Mark Vaile ,Downer, hopefully John Howard.
We may not have had much help from the Christian leaders of this country but the Muslim Leaders HAVE helped. We must support the Halal Kind meats cojoint farms to slaughter here in Australia.
There is nobody else presenting this proposal. We have worked hard for four years to put this together.
It really is! the only answer for live exports and jobs for Australia.
Other than that I would like to say I have worked with many people but yourself and Celivia are true ambassadors for the animals
Thank you
You are the ones really doing the lords work.
http://www.halakindmeats.com/

Alchemist

Want a job?
Your telling it the way it is no ifs and buts is a refreshing read on this forum.

I dont know if you have read all the posts on this subject.[probably not] but we have a counter project which will provide meat without the cruelty.

http://www.halakindmeats.com/

The Halal Kind Meat project is not just for Muslim consumers but world wide. As Australia is the largest exporter of live animals in the world we have a reasonsibilty and a oportunity to do something wonderful for animal welfare jobs for Australians supporting Farmers

I asked The Church To look at supporting this however they are not interested in anything much actually and that includes jobs for Australian Familys.

We travelled from QLD to see Senater Fielding being he is representing christains and the Church and thats when I started to get angry.

After writing to Church Leaders for six years and showing footage of the most gross cruelty not one church leader was interested enough to reply. It is truely disturbing.

We are speaking of thousands of letters not just a couplre of dozen.

Welcome to the debate on Church Leaders Turn Their Backs on Animal Welfare.
I hope we hear much more from you in the future.

Good people are rare and I think your a no nonsence person.
We are lucky we also have some nice people on the forum.
What we need to do as well as posting is to get somebody prepared to organise some practicle steps from here.

Of course thats up to the two girls but I am putting my hand up to advise if thats not considered too cheeky.
I have extensive knowledge in this area and I am happy to supply all material advise and outgoings.

May I ask All the readers to join PALE. its only $1.per year

Alchemist Your one of the few good People and I hope you will consider lending a voice to PALE and our Lovely Scout and Celiva ozgirl and the many good people who are rightfully angry with churches lack of action.
http://www.livexports.com/

Marilyn, thanks for your kind words. However I have no interest in the torturous slaughter and enslaving of animals to feed monotheists, or others on the other side of the world. Gods work is war, so why should I help destroy defenceless animals to feed those following a war driven mythical god.

Please, I'm not a good person, just see other life as equal, not for exploitative abuse. The followers of god care nothing for animals, they exploit them at every opportunity to feed their faces. I want all cows and sheep removed from this country and no export of our animals for economic greed, to satisfy some bizarre religious sacrificial stupidity.

Can't you see how hypocritical it is to go round saying you care for animals and their welfare, but cage them up, kill them nicely and sell them to eat for money. I find that bizarre in the extreme. Yet after serving in the church for so long, nothing's bizarre within the despotic actions of gods followers. It's normal for them to indulge in the most barbaric self deception they can find, then call it the good works of god.

Ask animals if they want to be bred to feed the despots of the world. Ask them if they enjoy having babies, then seeing their offspring murdered as their forced to produce a toxic poison for humans(milk), so the fools of the world can make themselves sick.

What do you think they'll say Marilyn. Then again it doesn't matter, their only animals aren't they and here for your abuse. After all, your god gave them to you, to treat as god does all living things, violently destructive.

This thread has 112. posts and Scouts thread 140....that is great going...this competetive spirit is great..

YAY OZGIRL, at least people are talking/thinking about it!
I’m not competitive though- as long as people are interested in talking about animal welfare I’m happy. If we were competitive we’d be fighting over Yabby, hehe.

The Alchemist,
Thanks for your opinion. I have mostly replied to you on Scout’s animal welfare thread. I’d like to add here that I am not at all in favour in caging animals, nor are Wendy, Scout and most others on this thread.

Believe me, I don’t like religions either. The main reason for trying to involve the church is that we need them to wake up, speak out to make the govt, and church members aware that the way we are treating animals is cruel and not acceptable.
The fact is the church does exist and we don’t accept that the church accepts animal cruelty by being silent.
They can speak out on other issues, I expect them to speak out against animal cruelty too. You are correct that they haven't done anything so far.

The reason I don’t find it hypocritical that people care about animal welfare and still aim to improve living conditions for animals and painless slaughtering methods instead of banning eating meat or produce is because we realise that global or national vegetarianism is not going to happen, no matter how much we desire this.

We have to deal with facts and the facts are that most people choose to eat meat, whether this is right or wrong. Denying this is not going to improve things for animals.

Telling people become vegans hasn’t worked in the past and will not work now.
Extremists, with all their good intentions, actually hinder the process of improving conditions for animals.

They don’t want to hear about improving animal welfare because they don’t want anything to do with the caging, killing etc.
So they do nothing except telling everyone that they should be vegetarians.
No way is this going to happen, so the best next option is to make improvements, and we need the govt and church to help do that.