Celivia
Congradulations to yourself and Scout on your work to help the animals.
I beleive these forums will get bigger and bigger.
Yes your idea of the pictures is a good one.
What you need to do allocate who wants to help to one job..
I can assist you regarding the things that need immediate attention so it falls into line and is easily managed.

However I can not be the co ordinator.

I have PALE in conjuction with RSPCA QLD pluss the hKM Halal Kind Meats project on top of the everyday home and horse duties.

We urgently require somebody to read the leads and enquires that are flooding in from overseas in regards to tyhe HKM Co Joint Free Range Farm proposals.

If you or Scout were happy to do that I will sent you the link into the trade leads?
We certainly need more PALE members or you can form your own name and I will just send you as much information as you ask for.

I possibly can get a Support Free Range Farmers Support Web page built for you if you like.

We must start somewhere.

Or We can link It To PALE. Whatever yourself and Scout prefer.

As you know I am trying to work on the biz proposal for The federal Ministers office.
It may Interest you to know that The Beattie Government are very interested in this Free Range Co Joint proposal. I have taken a lot of time out to support yourself and Scout in your forums because I think that is important too!.
Actually I have left two Ministers advisers hanging.

That is how important I think your forums are.

You both Bright and very fair. Lets as Benny Said move on now. What Do You Say?

You never know you may even get Churches offering to help.

Anything is possible if you ask the lord

While I am pleased and I know that Celivia is happy that our animal discussions have been so successful, we are not in competition. This was always a joint effort. Celivia wanted to question the lack of church support for animal welfare and a single thread could not cope. In fact, I think I should have called my thread “Live Export – is it necessary?” because animal welfare is such a broad topic.

In the arguments about the church and animal welfare, one truth has clearly emerged. This was from GrahamY, he stated:

“ And as the church is concerned with human beings, it's a bit illogical to expect them to be running animal refuges.”

I always believed the church was more concerned about human beings and GrahamY’s statement simply confirmed that belief.

And that is the crux of the matter. The church divides people not only among themselves but from the very environment that sustains them! Go figure.

There is a cliché: ‘If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.’

Well, not about to join ANY religion. How about: ‘If you can’t beat ‘em, ignore them’?

We have achieved the largest response from posters on the general discussion sites. We have gathered information, exchanged ideas and are looking towards the future, a future where animals are treated with as much compassion and respect as we would like to be treated ourselves.

To put it simply, we don’t need the church. I am reminded of a line from Groucho Marx:

“I wouldn’t want to belong to a club that would have me.”

If the church suddenly wanted to help a bunch of environmentally aware, humane and compassionate people, you’d just have to be suspicious, wouldn’t you?

The church is about helping itself, keeping people in line, limiting thought, deed and speech.

Time to move on. There are animals that are castrated, debeaked, docked without general anaesthetic. There are animals crowded into conditions where they cannot move around, they never see the light of day, roll in the grass or even run and simply play – as all creatures like to do.

Hello everybody. Good debate happening.

Oz girl, late Steve Irwin had celebrity connection one person could dream of. He also was befriended with Live animal exporters like Murdoch, Packer and naturally befriended with John Howard.
Steve Irwin donated as much money on conserving Wildlife as the Government spent on destroying it.
Steve Irwin is a legend in his own right
As Elton John says in his Song
“Candle in the Wind”.
…… Your candle burnt out long before
Your legend ever did……………

Even so Steve Irwin was a famous celebrity all over the world he was only one person against everybody else.
Yes, he kept his enemies close and rightfully so...

If we want to make a change in this world we need to work together as a team and tackle the Government, churches and every politician right left and centre.

Yabby,
I am sure you know that the live exports is doing extremely well because of the number of politician who are actively involved in exporting live animals.
That`s conflict of interest and doing what is right for our Nation keeping the jobs here.
That`s why Senator Andrew Bartlett couldn`t stop the reopening of the Live Exports.
On the other hand Andrew Bartlett is mixing with the extreme Animal Welfare groups and is not seen as a very serious Politician.
Without jobs, no income, no self esteem, boredom arises and violence (be it domestic or otherwise) and the crime rate are on the rise.

Scout and Celivia

I have been working with native wildlife most of my life.
Last year I gave up my life in NSW, to help PALE in QLD. PALE is the only Group that has a workable plan and answers to help all animals as well as all Australians and Indigenous citizens alike.
It`s your forums girls but if you don`t mind me saying try and built a group under PALE and spread your wings from there.
We need to get a group going in favor of free range farmers.

Antje, the thing is, we don't live in Russiastan or similar. You
cannot compel people to do anything, merely give them choices.

I remember seeing a programme on a kangaroo export works in Walgett
I think it was. There were plenty of unemployed people around,
but the owner had to fly in workers from NZ to do the job.

The thing is, in the end people should do what they have an aptitude
for, anything else usually lands up in failure. Working on a meat
chain takes a certain mentality, its not for everyone.

For a start it needs a work ethic. Out of bed at 6am, at work at
7am, stand there all day doing the same job. No drugs in our life.

In my experience, indigenous people in general, not always, just
can't hack that kind of job and don't last long. Yet they make
superb mechanics, are really enthused and do that well.

Now if in your dreaming of how you think the world should be, you are
trying to force people with an aptitude to being great mechanics,
onto a meat chain, its not going to work. Think about it.

Scout some interesting points. On your comment "The church divides people not only among themselves but from the very environment that sustains them! Go figure." While I was a christain I struggled with the lack of interest in protecting the environment shown by many christains.

The most common factor in the circles I moved in seemed to be a belief that god was going to destroy the whole thing soon anyway and souls were more important. I notice that the world and some of the environment is still here despite their demise having been expected for some time (I'm rather pleased about that).

I guess in other parts of the church the thinking would be different but the core bit is probably a belief that mans (and maybe woman's) souls are more important than this world. Some of us were passionate about the environment but it's an issue in which there is no broad consensus across the church.

For much of the church there is no one central authority (apart from a belief in god and the bible) so most of the political activity is from specific sections of the church rather than a broad controlling body. There is to much in fighting and distrust of those who don't do it the same way for central authorities to gain much power other than in a couple of the big demoninations (RC and Anglican). Just have a snoop at the differing opinions on this site from christains about hell and who goes there.

R0bert

Robert
I have been reading the posts but being nine months pregnant slows me a bit. I intend to get more active after my baby is born. Good thoughts Robert. The problem as I see it is very clear. I read a post by Antje Struthmann pointing out the conflicts of interests.
Scout Great stuff. You can see who is fair dinkim and who is not.
What about this Yabby person. I mean he goes on as if he were a member of a secret soceity for goodness sake. I have done some reasearch and not just in the last week either.
Wendy has long said to the extreme groups as I read in something she wrote on a googles search that we have the wrong sheep in the wrong country.
Apparently Yabbie is breeding sheep just for meat. I actually rang her and she told me you had told her that yabby. Well point one whats the big secret, point two it was her nagging these extreme groups ages ago that brought that into the circle as well.
I am a member of several groups over many years Yabby. Yes many are extreme but that comes from the ever fund raising leaders.

The only reason they wont support free range farms is they might loose a few members fees from the extreme lot. Take it from me because I know. As for the Churches they are already involved in politics. As for our tax payers money going to build yards in the middle East its a bloody joke. Hey Yeh I am sure you want to keep quite about that. Like I said Yabby after I have the baby I will get more involved. I dont want my tax payers money going to the middle east to built stuff that should be built here.
Another thing Yabby Put up or shut up.
he Churches involved themselves in politics Yabby so there are two reasons now they should be speaking out about cruelty to Animals instead of just one.