Foxy, great quote, and absolutely spot on.

Belly, I think you may be right. Anything we say in favour of the progress unions have made in working conditions will be misinterpreted, which is a pity. But I think that we would be decades from where we are now without them.

Col, if I offended you, I apologise, it was not my intention. My family came to Australia a long time ago, and I remember that the decision being made was Australia, New Zealand, South Africa (yes really!) or Canada. My father was a doctor, and Australia offered the best professional possibilities for him. I was not in the UK during the Thatcher administration, so perhaps my comment was not as well-informed as it could have been, and I try to respect the political views of others in the same way as my political preferences have never been static (not that I could imagine voting Liberal, I'm afraid!)

But back to the "bail-out". Would we be better making it some sort of industry "bail-out", since the jobs picture seems to be getting gloomier by the day? The way this thing seems to have been structured worries me insofar as the most disadvantaged people (those who earn next to nothing now) will apparently get nothing. And many of those who do will use it to retire debt or save it because they are worried about their jobs. It is also of some concern that Asian countries seem to be trying to buy out Australian mineral companies (and Middle Eastern interests farming land to ensure their supply of live animals!)

Who was it who offered the wager about who would be leading the Liberal Party at the next election? I think I'll go for Turnbull (with the shadow of Costello behind him!)

Cheers
Nicky

Yabby,

Don’t come in here with your little pro live export agenda, and tell me you can’t understand our organisation, has long argued, we need to put funds back into infrastructure ,throughout regional areas, to give farmers some alternatives.

I could go back if I could be bothered when ‘you yourself’ have argued the same- (when it suites you)

Oh and do be careful there is a protest going on in another thread that Agriculture doesn’t get a look in under the banner of Government spending.

Never figured you for a ALP supporter though. Guess it doesn’t matter to you anyway as morals never were of any great use to after all.

You make me appreciate rehctub, even more.

I say Butcher for PM:

Gertrude, my point was actually about 150'000 cows dying in your
state right now, I thought that you actually might care about them
and help do something.

Sorry, it seems that I was wrong.

Rehctub are you able to provide evidence that, during the fluctuation in the supply vs demand,

Well no I can't at this point however I will try to do some reserch if time permits.

However, everyone knows that the wages in recent times for tradies and labourers, when the mining boom was in full swing, saw a huge increase. They either axcept this or they choose to turn a blind eye.

Tradies being paid in excess of $100K p/a. Remember, many of these faced financial ruin back in the late 90's.

Labourers being paid $30 per hour in many cases. Brickies on $800 a day+ All these increases were as a result of more job places than workers so the employers has little choice but to pay the rate or go without. Why else do you think a house went from $600/m2 to over $1100/M2 in the space of 8 years?

Now even belly admitted previously that the higher wages were as a result of supply and demand.

So now the demand has dropped whay can't the pay rates drop as well, or is it a one way street.

Employers can only pay so much in wages so either they take the pay cut when times are tough or they loose thier jobs. That's it!

And PALE, you are spot on with the value adding argument.

I will create a post on this as it is a touchy subject for me.

I would have zero unemployment if I had my way. Why can't we value add and pay the people on benifits to do the work.

What is wrong with working for thier hand outs at award rates. Esspecially if we can provide additional jobs through value adding projects. Meat processing, steel manufacturing and fabricating, paper manufacturing, just to name a few.

Job creation is the key, not spending/wasting money hand outs!

And I ask again and again, WHO IS GOING TO PAY IT BACK? Anyone willing to offer an answer? The tax positive tax payers can't pay any more, we already pick up the slack AND PAY THE BILLS!

Yabby

We are not the bank of England Yabby.
We just do what we can.
You should know what we are doing
I posted on the thread under news.
Your very welcome to send a donation of Hay.

Trucks are on their way
arranged by private people
because neither ALP State or
Federal Government would help.

Its absolutlty awful:

They left them for weeks on end.
Agreed yesterday to arrange to
send some hay but that was 'only' after
the media got involved.

What a pity the Animals cant vote.

Speaking of Hay Yabby ,I object in
the srongest possible terms at
being forced to hand over truck
loads of Hay goods to FF.

We will deliver our own
donations door to door.
I dont think its approaite
for FF to say all the hay is going
to A Shed and we will deliver from there!

People prefer to ensure the food
gets to the Animals asap.
Of course theres always the
good old DPI to step in and then say-
Take it back it might have ants whatever
While animals starve.

Anyway I suppose I cant blame
you for that. We all know there
is no Hay In Melbourne due to droubt.
Well most of us I should say.

FYI There was a news flash a moment ago.
John Howard has spoken out for the first
time and given his thoughts on Rudds Bail out.

I think we need a woman next time if we
cant have -

rehctub,for PM.

Rehctub, I agree that in "boom" times, such as the recent history of mining, wages possibly did go through the roof - but that had nothing to do with unions or awards. That WAS a function of supply and demand. Where the situation gets interesting is that unemployment will rise now, but there remain skills shortages in the economy.

I think that whatever this "bail-out" offers, it should include spending to address these skills shortages. When Howard came to power, all labour market (training) programs were pretty much axed - Jobtrain, Special Intervention and other training, along with Skillshares. And they did get people into jobs. The other thing that worked was wage subsidies. In an ideal world, everyone who can work probably should, but how do many get jobs with no skills and no way of getting them? Even TAFE courses are expensive. Recent statements about supporting apprentices threatened with unemployment have been encouraging.

The skills/jobs equation has to be addressed.

As for who will pay the money back - are surpluses not created as "buffers" for hard times? It may take time - probably a long time - to build back up again, but I think it will resolve itself.

Yabby, in a historic moment, I agree with you. I've been wondering why PALE hasn't had a word to say about the starving cattle in Queensland too. Plenty about Victoria; too far away from Queensland to have to do anything serious about. I couldn't actually see where you expressed an ALP preference either.

Nicky