Yabby, it is clearly irresponsible to breed dogs for whom you have no expectation of finding homes; that is the language of morals and principles, of which of course you have no understanding. Why breed puppies whom you will simply knock on the head when no-one wants them?

As for "conspiracy theories", do you think it is simply an accident that countries which import live Australian animals (which also import massive quantities of meat) have placed artificial trade barriers in the form of tariffs to discourage importing meat over live animals? Nor is it any accident that AQIS charges the meat processing sector excessive fees while charging the live exporters virtually nothing. Do get a grip. You might also want to look into the Hassall reports and the jobs they claim are dependent on the live export industry and their highly questionable qualitative research methodologies (I refer in particular to their multiplicity factors) - in other words, the wife of the man who cleans the toilets at the local truck stop where the transporter buys the odd box of matches is included. One does not need to be a "conspiracy theorist" to see the gaping holes in the arguments.

Still - governments believe it - at this point, at least. That's why people despise politicians.

As for dogs not being suited to live export because they do not like fouling their "living quarters", I'd be prepared to bet that sheep do not like spending 3-4 weeks knee deep in their mature, crammed 3 to a square metre either, but what the hell? The industry took AQIS to court to make sure that didn't improve, too. And pigs? They hate it too, but 350,000+ of them in Australia are forced to do it.

Like PALE, I can't wait to hear your explanations of the "red tape" excuse.

Nicky

Nicky, it is yet another sign of your stupidity, when you pass
judgement in situations where you don't know the facts. As I have
stated before, sterilising a dog, where one wants to keep the genetic
lines going, is not the smartest of things to do. Fact is that my
dogs are miles from any other dogs. Fact is that dogs generally
don't wander around these parts, being livestock country, they
will soon be shot. Fact is the system has worked fine for 30 years
or so. Fact is that somebody new in the district did not pay
attention to how things are done, lucky for them their dog was
not shot.

Nope I don't just hand out puppies to anyone. Either my dogs go to
great homes or not at all. They are certainly not going to the city,
for they are sheepdogs and need space to be content with life.

But you are too ignorant to try and understand the whole picture.

Live exporters and meatworks pay the same rates per hour for
AQIS services. Meatworks need every carcass inspected to meet
agreements reached with the US etc, that has little to do with
the live trade. AQIS is about fee for service. Is something so
simple beyond you?

You raise the economic issue yet once again. If farmers are paid
60$ for sheep rather then 20$, I can assure you that when they
spend that money in the community, huge numbers of jobs are
created and they don't go out of business either. Even your
simplistic little brain should understand that.

Where is there manure that is knee deep? Do you even know anything
about sheep dung? Herbivore dung makes great flooring material
in Africa btw.

*The laws governing what happens in meatworks are dependant on
International agreements that overseas markets have with Australia.
If we don't comply with EU, US laws etc, they deny us access to
Their meat markets. That includes their inspectors inspecting our
Plants, to see that they meet their standards. That is why it
Is so complex to obtain registration of export plants. Not
Because of any conspiracy theories.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 17 November 2008 5:01:50 PM*

Nicky

I didn’t notice Yabby’s above comment. I am pretty busy at the moment.

However if you use your imagination it goes a long way to explaining the problem with red tape. There are 'so many' requirements placed upon the red meat industry that doesn’t exist in sending animals alive.
At the moment the amount of red meat leaving Australia is well and truly controlled and manipulated

USA especially always controlled this for their trade dollar deals and other reasons.

It sucks. We have had a real opportunity to change a lot of this in the last few years.

I have told you before Malaysia will be the hub of the muli trillion dollar Halal industries and export chilled Halal Meat through JAKIM to the ME etc...

They were happy to slaughter here in Australia and send carcass to Malaysia in consideration of labour costs.

We asked Hugh to attend meetings and others to discuss this with Malaysian Gov delegates.
He refused and wouldn’t even reply….

Of course it’s the answer. Interesting he then approached the people we were working with behind our backs…. Interesting he then headed the handle with care.

I hope people are not being mislead and too trusting in some cases.
Yeh I know Yabbs speaking of conspiracies. ( Just telling it to Nicky he way we see it)

Halal Meat is huge and will only grow more. Why should Australia be left behind and only used as the largest supplier for raw materials exporting our jobs.

Open letter to Dr Hugh Wirth.RSPCA.

Dear Dr Wirth
As you have ignored 'all' of our invitations along with RSPCA National since the Cormo to talk with Muslim leaders from Australia and ME re supply of Halal meat and to discuss animal welfare- I thought you might publicly respond to our letter.

I am writing this letter on a public forum because for the last six years our organisation has been unable to get a response from either ourself or RSPCA National regarding our project to work with Muslim people both from Australia and overseas to improve animal welfare and work direct with Australian farmers.

The response has been the same from other leading Animal Welfare groups. To a point in some cases I suppose I can understand that reaction. After all many animal Welfare groups have large vegetarian membership.

Which brings me back to RSPCA Dr Wirth.

As Animal welfare leaders of Australia who hold main steam views that do not oppose animals being slaughtered we knew RSPCA would be delighted with our MOU for Animal Welfare with Muslim leaders.-‘ We thought’?

It was all set up so donations back into animal welfare would go direct to RSPCA to continue their work to improve conditions for all animals. Our little gift to you for the animals. Even a small percent of a multi trillion dollar industry would have set up RSPCA for the rest of their lives enabling them to assist many more animals and employ more inspectors.

Why is it that only the RSPCA QLD CEO took interest in this project?

The latest attempt was made by one of our lawyers who contacted Heather in a real attempt to work united for animals.

Despite saying lets work united from now on- We didn’t hear a word from them. I Believe you attended the meeting on the Gold Coast at the Casino Hugh.

Interesting they flew Islamic people from INDIA to address live exports.
Our office is a mile from their and our AUSTRALIAN Muslim people would have happily addressed the room.
You knew that.

Yabby, you still have not addressed my question about why the live export trade chooses not to export dogs to China, given that there is a voracious bloodlust there for them - the matter of the dung aside (the dung from any carnivore is infinitely more unpleasant than that from a herbivore, of course, but given the volume we are talking about on such as the "Al Kuwait", and the addition of urine, over a 3-4 week period on a multi-port voyage, even you cannot try and convince anyone that the conditions are not disgusting (read the oil rig worker's report at www.liveexportshame.com - he also raises the matter of carcasses, and sheep trying to swim - they would be the ones too sick to be offloaded upon arrival).

Three sheep per square metre is a lot of dung and urine, and the photos of conditions on the "Cormo Express" demonstrate that - sheep, and even a new born lamb, trying to swim.

The reality is that there is no difference.

As for AQIS fees - they must charge the live export trade peanuts, since they rarely attend and inspect at loadings.

PALE, I have to suggest that putting "open letters" here for politicians and for Hugh Wirth is a wasted exercise, since they are unlikely to be read by anyone other than those interested in the topic at hand. You would be better advised to write them to the major media outlets, because as a strategy this will go nowhere. We have been down this road so often. If you can't get a response out of him, why not try camping on his doorstep until you do?

(To continue)

Nicky

Continued ...

Yabby, as for your dogs, it is morally reprehensible to breed dogs (whatever their "lineage") only to kill them because no-one wants them. You are contributing to the 200,000+ unwanted dogs destroyed every year in this country and you should be ashamed of yourself. But everything is about dollars to you, isn't it, not about the lives of the animals you kill so thoughtlessly. I have no interest in your arguments about a dog's "lineage", or show quality; I have never had, or wanted a thoroughbred dog, I would prefer to have the ones that no-one else wants.

Nicky