Nicky of course I answered your question. My personal ethics and
the free market, are quite different issues.

I don't go hunting for instance and generally don't eat hunted food,
but farmed food. Those are my ethics, my philosophies. That has
nothing to do with the free market.

I see a huge difference between shipping puppies for food and sheep
for food. One is a carninvore, one a herbivore. One has evolved to
be highly intelligent for good reasons, the other has evolved to
chew up useless grass and turn it into food for itself. You throw
them all in the same pot, they are not the same. The difference
between species is huge and to treat them all the same is ridiculous.

But those are my personal ethics and philosophies. What we see
about humanity is that where meat and food supplies have been
really short, people will eat anything, even each other in
some circumstances. Perhaps the near starvtion in China for so
long, led them to start eating dog, cat whatever. Our culture
has had the luxury, of not being under their kind of population
pressure and shortage of food. So we've been fortunate to be able
to treat some species as pets or companions. Interersting that
as the standard of living rises in China and they can afford to
import beef, pork, lamb, mutton etc, pets are once again becoming
popular

There is absolutely no difference to the Chinese - and nor should there be to anyone else - between abusing, torturing and eating an animal that is a carnivore from doing it to a herbivore. The animal's own heredity/eating preferences have absolutely nothing to do with it.

An economic opportunity for "battling farmers" is an economic opportunity. Why stop at sheep, cattle, goats, deer, camels and horses?

But an animal - any animal - is a living, sentient creature and all are equally capable of feelings of hunger, thirst, fear, pain and loneliness. You have an extremely selective morality, Yabby. Abusing dogs offends you, but not sheep (in your case) and cattle and the other animals you regard as edible).

Nicky

And to further your education ...

"1. Australian Study: Sheep Learn Quickly and Retain Knowledge for Long Periods

Australian researchers have studied sheep and determined that they have a significant capacity to learn and retain knowledge, which one source says "dispel(s) the popular belief that sheep are mindless animals." Australia's Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) conducted the research by making 60 sheep find their way through a maze to meet up with other sheep from the same flock. Over a period of three days, the sheep dropped their average time going through the maze from 2 minutes to about 30 seconds, showing an ability to learn quickly. The sheep were retested 6 weeks later and the average time to complete the maze was still about 30 seconds, further indicating that sheep can retain such knowledge for long periods. The research corroborates past studies showing that sheep can remember the faces of up to 50 other sheep and 10 humans shown to them in pictures (see FAW #2-66, http://www.farmedanimal.net/Newsletters/Newslettern66v2.htm#2). In the CSIRO study, some sheep were also given a drug to impair their memories, with the impaired sheep performing significantly worse through the maze. The comparison shows that a sheep's learning and retention abilities are based on cognitive rather than instinctive processes. The findings may have significant welfare implications for sheep farming in Australia and elsewhere.

(Frankly, I doubt it, but you never know, some farmers may be capable of understanding this)

Nicky

http://www.farmedanimal.net/faw/faw5-33.htm

*The animal's own heredity/eating preferences have absolutely nothing to do with it. *

Of course they have something to do with it and its about the
natural order and what happens in nature. Carnivores generally
eat herbivores, its a highly sustainable system that has evolved
over millions of years.

*An economic opportunity for "battling farmers" * Ah Nicky, but
you try to throw all farmers into the one pot. They are all individuals
with their own morals and reasonings. There are plenty
of women who breed and flog off dogs, living in cities. I don't
lump all of you into one group. I am explaining to you why I
personally would not breed dogs for meat. Heaps of city slickers
might be pretty keen on the idea. Farmers generally run livestock
as part of an overall system, which includes crops etc. Its the
most sustainable farming system around by far. Rotations matter.

As to sheep intelligence, given my interest in neuroscience and
as I happen to run sheep here, I'd have done more experiments on
sheep intelligence then anyone I can think of. Yes sheep do have
reasonable memories. There are genetic advantages to that. That
does not mean that they think alot or that conditions under which
they thrive, would suit another species. Each species is quite
specific, depending on its evolutionary history.

Just as you probably would not fare too well, out in a paddock eating
dried up grass, they might not thrive, driving to your workplace
and doing your job. You and sheep are different and denying those
differences and requirements is kidding yourself.

*If Gertrude wants to believe
in her conspiracy theories about MLA and Elders etc, frankly it’s not worth my time, to even bother. ….

Ah Yabby
Naughty boy, talking about me in my absence.


It’s a matter of record each time I have raised issues, or put up an argument,( any argument) about MLA or Elders , AWB Landmark etc you ‘ignored’ it and changed the subject .

Of course you claim Gertrude doesn’t know what she’s talking about etc….

This is despite the the following people have us.
1 Head of Elders
2 Heads of MLA Live Exports (including a call from the MLA head in ME Ian Ross
3 Your buddy Peter AWB
4 The Minister for Agricultures advisor for Rudd ALP two weeks pre election.

Now before I go on, pls remember all of the above contacted us not the other way around. - But you ‘still insist I have no idea about these people.

You’re entitled to your opinion but let me ask you what ‘direct contact have YOU had with MLA heads Elders AWB, Landmark etc by comparison pls Yabby.

Saying you honestly think Gertrude is away with the fairies and calling me a liar are two different things.

Are you calling me a liar Yabby? If not why would I not be able to make an informed opinion after dealing direct with heads?

Why indeed would you ask people to accept your version but reject ours when you offer no proof I am incorrect.

*So please go out and generate some exports*….l

I am Yabby and certain people don’t like it.

Human interest,
Our organisation works with ALL regional area and especially aboriginal people.
It isn’t possible to separate people from Animals and I think the Animal organisations feel people need to also be aware animals suffer as much as people- often more.
There isn’t a prise for NFP work we all just do what we can. As for the bombers they were killed far more kindly than our millions of Australian farm animals I can ASSURE you.

Yabby wrote, "Daggett dear, you spend enormous time (48 pages) on another thread, trying to show that it must have been that naughty
CIA who did it all."

For someone who stated of the 9/11 controversy, "Frankly its not worth my time, to even bother," you have spent an awful lot of time extending that discussion at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2166&page=0#50194 as well as dragging that discussion into this thread,.
I would add that, into the bargain, you seem to have made a complete ass of yourself be proclaiming that clearly faked videotape confession by 'Osama bin Laden' to be evidence that Osama bin Laden masterminded the 9/11 attacks.

Yabby continued, "... By very implication you must think that
Osama is a victim, clearly framed and innocent if it was that
evil CIA. ..."

Why does that necessarily follow?

I repeat that I reject your baseless smear against me that simply stating these facts in any way means that excuse Osama bin Laden.

In any case, I am not saying whether or not the terrorist CIA asset Osama bin Laden had any hand in the 9/11 attacks. All I am saying is that no evidence has been produced and even the FBI has stated that it doesn't have the necessary evidence to charge Osama bin Laden with the 9/11 attacks. Wherever the truth may lie, it is obvious that the US Government doesn't want Osama bin Laden captured alive or he would face a public trial which would obviously greatly embarrass the US Government.

Yabby continued, "... Now your little feelings are hurt, ..."

Glad to see Yabby again showing off his mind-reading abilities.

" ... after you have come onto this thread and written post after post of insults and accusations."

I thought they were statements of fact in response to an unfair attack on another contributor. Why not show me where I am wrong?