I know this discussion is not really about the puppy but it irks me that the judiciary or legislature go so light on animal cruelty which they have the power to offer some deterance against.

When the puppy case came up they mentioned the highest punishment ever awarded and it was not high. Anyone who does something dramatic like dragging a kitten behind a car or sadistically cutting up a puppy irrespective of any real or imagined excuses they might put forward should serve some time in jail that is a reasonable approximation of the maximum sentence.

If the law gives a low maximum sentence eg. 2-3 years jail which would almost require a magistrate to give a small fine for a first offence then parliament needs to raise it. If the maximum sentence is high then magistrates should meet community expectations and stop inviting people to misbehave with their light punishments.

Thanks, Ludwig, and Richie for your input.

Yabby, I'm not even going to go there with your tired old arguments. You know and we know that none of what you claim is true. Think diversification. If other factors than the moral one prevent the farming of livestock, are you all going to squeal just as loudly? Your rhetoric is the usual MLA mantra - do you ever have an original thought in your head? No-one believes for a second that the 'poor WA farmers' will go broke - they get far too many handouts for that. Nor is it they who are making the real money, that's how dumb they are.

Nicky

*You know and we know that none of what you claim is true.*

On the contrary, the evidence is very much on my side and has
convinced virtually all Governments, and 45'000 farmer members
of MLA. They employ the animal welfare specialists on the ground
in the ME, they are on the ships, or at the dock.

They also are aware of the agenda of a few vegan animal
liberationists like yourself, who distort the data to try
and hoodwink the public, who can't be expected to understand
the complex issues involved. You remind me of the many
religious extremists on OLO, repeating the same bible quotes
and mantras, over and over again. Animal liberation is
your ideology, as religion is theirs. Fair enough, but don't
confuse it with the truth.

*No-one believes for a second that the 'poor WA farmers' will go broke - they get far too many handouts for that.*

Funny then, that due to lack of profitability, the Australian
sheep flock has halved and even with present prices, huge numbers
of farmers have had to leave the land. You clearly don't have
the foggiest about agro economics.

Now what subsidies have been paid to Western Australian farmers,
as distinct from Eastern States farmers? I remind you, most live
exports are from WA. Check your facts please.

Endless rhetoric and endless new posts about the live trade, might
be what political science tells you is good politics, but you cannot
hide from the truth.

Why not? You do. Is there any reason why WA farmers should get more handouts that those in the Eastern states? Is there any reason why farmers should get the handouts that other industries don't get?

Since you are so well-informed, please provide the following data:-

How many Australian veterinarians are employed in animal welfare in:
Bahrain, Oman, Qatar, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt, Eritrea and any other Middle Eastern country which imports Australian animals

The precise number of Australians employed in animal welfare in those countries.

The accredited qualifications (name and level of qualification and issuing institution) of those people

The content of the training programs supposedly being delivered,and who is responsible for translating them into the relevant language, also what qualification is being issued to the trainee animal abusers.

The number of training programs supposedly completed and the numbers of "trainees"

Until you can, you are simply repeating the mantra of MLA. And throwing religious fanaticism into the mix, as always, is totally irrelevant to this debate.

mjpb, you are absolutely right, the penalties handed down by the courts for the most appalling cruelty in Australia are simply pitiful and no deterrent at all. As an example, a transporter managed to kill more than 350 wild goats on a marathon 65 hour journey to live export from Bourke in NSW to the Northern Territory. He was fined about $15.00 per goat. The Australian Standards for the Export of Livestock, and the transport of livestock within Australia, is almost wholly unmonitored and unenforced. Yabby would try and tell you otherwise, but if you visit the Animals Angels (Australia) website, you will find the true picture.

Nicky

Dear Nicky,

I feel that most sane people are against
animal cruelty. How can we not be?

But what I want to know is what can the
ordinary person do about it?

We do need strong legislation. We do need
stronger laws to be put in place for those
that commit vile acts against defenceless
animals. But apart from writing to your
Members of Parliament, emailing the PM,
what else do you suggest can be done?

I've done all of the above on many occasions,
yet feel that no much was achieved by it.

A public outcry is necessary. Just as Australia
won't accept domestic violence, it should not
accept violence against animals. That is a message
that our politicians need to understand, loud and
clear.

*Is there any reason why WA farmers should get more handouts that those in the Eastern states?*

Ah, but that is where you are shown to be ignorant. WA farmers
generally don't get the handouts that are paid in the ES. They
generally paddle their own canoes. So for you to speak of handouts
stopping farmers going broke, is complete hogwash, based on
your ingnorance.

If you want exact details of how MLA spends the millions of $
on animal welfare in the ME, ask MLA. They after all, represent
tens of thousands of farmer members. They pay the qualified
experts, you are free to bother to inform yourself.

Have you read their latest Annual report? I doubt it.

Nicky, a fanatic is a fanatic, similar mind processes take place.
They repeat the same old mantras, no matter what the evidence,
they raise the issues again and again, they lack any kind of ability
for rational debate or examing a topic from a number of angles or
thought patterns. The religious are fanatics, just like you are.