I think there are some rights and wrongs in the last two posts.

Firstly, Rojo, I agree with you on the issue of speciesism - I have a problem with people eating dogs, but I do not eat any animals. That does not necessarily place me on a higher moral ground; I am pragmatic enough to know that people are not going to stop eating animals any time soon. But we raise pigs and chickens in appalling conditions, not much better than those who farm dogs in Asia. We confine grazing animals - sheep and cattle in feedlots - all are denied anything approaching their natural behaviours. Pigs are known to be more intelligent and sensitive than dogs (and have better cognitive skills than 3-year old children). Chickens are bright, curious inquisitive birds who form their own unique relationships (mine certainly do(:)

As for anthropomorphism, I remember reading at the time of the tsunami, those grazing animals in those countries who could do so moved themselves to higher, safer ground. So PALE, you are quite right about that. And I hope you are feeling better.

It seems that Yabby might have developed a glimmer of understanding in that rather dull, wholly egocentric mind of his that chopping puppies' heads off with an axe for no better reason than they did not suit his purpose at the time offends anyone of common decency, and he has removed himself from this thread without satisfactorily answering the questions asked of him. Nothing unusual about that, I guess.

Nicky

Err Nicky, my posts clearly go over your head, for I have answered
any intelligent questions asked of me.

The fact that I don't respond to Gertrude has more to do with it
being a total waste of time. I certainly can't make much sense
of her mumbo jumbo and it seems that nobody else can either.
I've told her before that its not worth the bother to debate with
her, I prefer more intelligent OLO posters. She seemingly takes
no notice.

Now, to go over the facts again, given that you have a problem
with understanding them the first time.

Mommy was clearly stressed by too many pups and so were they.
Both immediately benefitted when I took action to get rid of two pups.

A puppy at two days old, with its eyes closed, is about 3-4
inches long. It is not as large as a guinea pig, not even the size
of a rat. A sharp axe is a perfectly painless and humane way of
disposing of a puppy of that age. No, I don't drown them, no I don't
gas them, no I don't shoot them. No, I don't raise them on a bottle
either.

I remind you once again of Darwin's Origin of Species. He wisely
notes that far more of any species will be created, then can ever
survive. Death is part of the cycle of life, especially amongst the
young. Every creature needs to make a living somehow and there will
not be enough resources to raise them all. The significance of
these fundamentals in this debate, clearly go way over your head,
as your maternal instincts dominate. That is your problem, not
my problem.

Yabby
Deaths nothing to do with it. It’s the 'cruelty' before death that some insensitive morons simply can’t understand.

If the cap fits...

Yabby you won’t debate me on MLA AWB the regional grants lurks and perks that’s correct. Nor will you comment on ABA long demands for a Royal Commission into MLA/.
Frankly Nicky seems to understand more than you about the MLA system.

The reason you 'think' I am talking mumbo jumbo is as you say YOU can’t understand.


I ask you again have you ever discussed anything to do with exporting meat with heads of MLA, Austrade, The CEO of Elders, Or the Muslim Leaders, AWB Heads.

Have you ever had the head of MLA from the Middle East personally call you to discuss red meat to ME.

I will let you in on this much- by average the Muslim People both here and overseas are MILES ahead of you lot. They are informed intelligent.

Nicky
Thanks for your thoughts. I wont lie no, but it helps knowing someone understands.
Speaking of which Nicky (this is important)- my sister sent me to see Australia to try to cheer me up...
Nicole Kidmann and Hugh Jackson clearly support Animal Cruelty.

*I will open a thread about this soon.*

Nicole could said NO to certain parts.

Australia is not just about aboriginal kids it a blatant live Export promotion.

We were were disgusted as *she played the part of running cattle onto the *ship.

She also chose to accept the part of holding a cow down and *sticking it with a *branding iron.

* This film must be exposed for what it is.*

I am afraid it all became too much when the people in the theatre started clapping at the end.

So I blocked the only exist with my car and got out and gave a speech on live exports.

Nicole Kidmann has just committed political suicide.

The aboriginal people and child in the show were the real stars-‘beautiful.’

Back to your lies Yabby.

There is no mumbo jumbo about pales comments.

They are right there for MLA and you to dispute up front. Very clear to understand.

1 You understood when I said MLA officials told us live exports was Mark Vaile’s baby. (The then Minister of trade)

2 You understood when I said MLA refused to assist with a red meat programme and share farm venture with Kuwait+ the reason given was that it was Mark ‘personally’ baby to arranged ships loads of live sheep to Kuwait.
To Quote MLA it was a Government to Government arrangement.

The point being MLA and Austrade are not supposed to be guided by personal biz of the then or now Minister.


Especially when that may disadvantage other companies. They are supposed to be working for the companies within that industry.

Now what part of that comment don’t you understand?

I also told you the head of MLA in the ME contacted us by phone and what he said
Nothing there to get confused about either.

Would you like me to repeat what Ian said again just so you’re not confused?

Did you understand also what I told you Peter McGauran’s advisor said upon arriving in QLD to meet with our company.

This was in relation to a meeting that we were informed took place just two days prior with Dr Hugh Wirth (as President of WSPA at the time for Australia and Allan RSPCA CEO UK)

http://www.rspca.com.au/about/ourwork_int.asp

Tell me regarding those couple of comments which part you cant understand.

You don’t want to discuss what Ian said or David of MLA or what the Ministers advisor told us.

There is No mumbo jumbo . You just don’t wish to go there.

Probably for no other reason other than you really don’t understand anything on that level IMO.

Hi Nicky, our chooks in the backyard have a great life too, apart from the odd wedgie attack. I couldn't in honesty call them bright, but that could simply be breed. Plymouth rocks look good if nothing else.

"As for anthropomorphism, I remember reading at the time of the tsunami, those grazing animals in those countries who could do so moved themselves to higher, safer ground."

And what do you conclude from this- they had a premonition, knew how far inland the waters would come?
Animals do have abilities that are better atuned than humans, homing pigeons sense of direction for instance, dog sense of smell, and no doubt ground vibrations will be picked up by grazing herbivores as part of their defence mechanism.
Humans tend to override instinct with curiosity- ooh the tide is so low lets go and have a look.

Handle with Care live export forum ...

http://www.tangler.com/forum/stop-live-export

Nicky