I agree with R0bert's post yesterday - I also avoid the personal attacks (and vitriole) and think we should be able to focus on points of agreement. That seems to be a pretty hard ask for some.
The animal welfare issue won't be going away but it looks increasingly as though we are unlikely to move closer to a resolution on this thread. It will be more productive for small farmers like me to work within our own associations and talk directly to politicans and other decision-makers

MJ, you are correct, lots of defaming going on, like claims about
the live export trade, with no substance in the real world.

Celivia, you using peta footage shows me the naivity which you
display about the topic. Peta are well known to take some obscure
footage, then claim its standard practise, time and time again.
Note their agenda and their constant money raising!

Now to the video, yup I watched it, with my little 28k modem, just
for you :) Once again lots of Peta crapola! No Australian cattle
involved, even though they tried to form that association.
Note that cattle live exports from Aus to Egypt are banned, but
Australia has forced Egypt to introduce standards to their meatworks,
all in the process of being implemented. With any luck, Elders will
invest in a plant there, running on Australian standards. That will
be of huge benefit to all cattle slaughtered in Egypt, not just
Australian ones, even though its a tiny market for Aus.

Now to sheep. Yes, some meatworks in the Middle East don't have
modern sheep chains yet, with stun guns etc, Peta found one in
Oman. They do what is done throughout rural Australia in a host
of shearing sheds. Sheeps legs are tied, their throats are cut,
other sheep see it. Meantime Australian farmers money is being
used to help the Middle East design and build modern plants,
as we have here. Australian farmers are making a difference there!
What difference are animal welfare groups making? How much money
did they contribute to improve animal welfare in the Middle East?

Celivia, are you aware that if any Aussie exporters are shown not
to comply with our standards, that they will lose their license and
be shut down? Have you ever been through an AQIS audit, to know
how fussy they get? I have and I also happen to know how quickly
they will remove licences, for those who do not comply to standards.

What a good idea freeranger.

There is a "recommend deletion" button at the bottom of each comment. If something needs to be brought to my attention, then please use it. We have rules against flaming. Flaming does not include legitimate criticism, nor does it include questioning the actions of people or organisations. It covers abuse. The word defamation is being thrown around a lot on this forum. For some explanation of the term you might like to check out http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/defamation.html.

I have deleted one post for flaming so far, and I'm going to look at others.

All posters take responsibility for their own posts under the forum rules, and indemnify us, so if you are breaching any laws others may be able to take action against you.

I would like people to go back and read 2 posts by PALE from yesterday the 20th. As you are reading this rubbish, remind yourself of all the claims PALE has made in regard to supporting free range farmers. mmm …. Did I have good reason to be concerned about them. Hell Yes!

Wendy – have you just learned about organics? Do you have any idea about the standards in place? That the Humane Society built their standard around the organic one?

You work so closely with the RSPCA? You are’nt even aware that they have their own Pork accreditation? Just like the egg one. Do you know about that?

Those poor people that let you come into their family business and be interviewed. Is it true you told them you were with the RSPCA? You didn’t listen to a word they said. They told you they didn’t sell organic pork – there’s none available. Does that sound familiar?? The rest of their products are organic. Were you so intent on damaging the industry that you just chose not to listen?

Only businesses without a website are the real deal? Whats ‘the deal’ then with your so called free range farmers website?

And were did this whole organic thing come from anyway? If you bothered to read other posts, you would find now one was recommending organic.

I am afraid Yabby is right - City Slickers

[Deleted for flaming.]