dickie, thankyou, but an expert I'm not. I am however reasonably well versed in zoonotic diseases too, though it seems you are the one "banging on" about them, I'm not the one bringing them up in the first place.

Quite incorrect, I don't downplay the dangers of zoonotic disease at all, I just put them in perspective with regard to farming. 20 million aids deaths, 30 million suffering- no link to cattle, sheep(would I say so without knowing it's likely origin) compared with vCJD less than 200 deaths, SARS 800 deaths, bird flu 2-300 deaths.
Frankly the scenario you depict about livestock farming is an exaggeration, but I wouldn't expect anything less.

It's a shame you can't address the issues, but prefer to make crude innuendoes, I'm beginning to think your brusque demeanor hides a certain insecurity, and some quite poor comprehension skills.
I did not say you thought up the govt conspiracies, but that you presented them as part of your argument, arguments more of inference(re:livestock farming) than fact. The question I pose to you is what do you believe govt covered up and on what basis?(we can confine it to livestock diseases for convienience and relevance).

yes, i do in fact like apple sauce with my pork roast.

Nicky, I can only assume your statement about your suspicions is based on the fact that I prefer native wildlife to feral cats and dogs. If you believe that they should be free to kill indiscriminately basically defenceless, often endangered fauna thats up to you.
My views on ferals has nothing to do with exploitation, but I wouldn't waste a resource if there were a market, it would save something elses life.

Some facts.

You both spend your 'whole olo lives' 'insisting' your not with any veggie groups.{ Personally I dont care because unlike you girls pale supports all animal lovers)

Then you continue to post 'word for word off their sites and policies for years like parrots.'

We know the veggie groups oppose our reopening of abattoirs 'because they were stupid enough to put it in writing on their letter heads.'

What you dont know is pale regarless support all animal welfare groups but like others uphold certain personal views.

For a start we are working with RSPCA QLD which of course upsets many.
Then of course pale work with Muslim leaders and farmers.

Of course to you girls that would make no sense at all.

I mean why would animal lovers unlike yourselves and friends even think about being friendly with farmers and Muslims!


Who does this pale mob think they are to speak out and act outside the clicky little veggie circle.

I mean for goodness sake if you lot claim to be demanding that live be diverted to chilled -it makes heaps of sense to try to stop the only group in this country actually working on fixing the problem.

IMOP as I said a year ago you two girls are on a mission for your friends to rubbish pale.

Thats ok, you go right ahead to highlight the differences in groups and approaches.

Your doing us an enourmous favour. People email us on a weekly and sometimes daily bassis to enquire what they can we do to help towards working on the answer to the problem rather than protest against people eating meat.

No pale wont fall into this silent control thats been in place for many years.

We wont ask permission to make a statement to anybody.

If we have something to say that we feel might help animals we just say it.

Get used to it.

Hi all

Dear me, Dickie, you and I seem to have ruffled an inordinate number of feathers now. I'll deal with Rojo first. Rojo, "feral" animals are out there as a result of human neglect, indifference, neglect and/or ignorance, and I therefore believe that if there must be control then it has to be humane. It seems that once an animal is regarded as "feral" or "pest" any means of disposing of it seems to be "acceptable" regardless of how cruel they may be (like 1080 poison). In particular, steel-jawed traps and 1080, and strychnine and like methods are totally indefensible. These animals are not merely "marketable commodities" as you people think all animals are.

PALE, I can't remember when I have quoted from the websites of any of the organizations you claim to be your enemies, but if I did, I stand corrected. I don't generally find I that need to. Frankly, I don't (and I'm sure Dickie doesn't either) care in the least who or what you think, in your delusions, I am or what wicked, mythical organizations you suspect me of being a member of, nor do I care what PALE is doing (which seems to be mostly about attacking every other animal advocate in the country, but other than that seems to be remarkably little in terms of real animal welfare improvements).

But if this is an indication of how PALE "supports" the other groups, then it is fortunate that they do not rely on it in any way, and are more than capable of progressing their own initiatives without any "assistance" from you.

Get used to it.

Nicky

*I do have an office, but that does not mean I work exclusively in it,*

Ok that confirms my point, I never claimed you worked exclusively
in it. I just had to drag it out of you lol.

*She was absolutely fine, no stress, and only "visiting" for an hour or so at a time *

Thats not the point. Race horses and circus animals can be absolutaly
fine too, yet you condem them. Either you believe that animals should
live natural lives, or you start leading them around on a leash.
Clearly you make up your philosophies as you go along, to suit the
occasion and how you feel.

Actually no Nicky, I don't put them on long truck journeys or on
ships, other people do. I sell them usually with an on farm price,
or delivered within 2 hours. The money pays for the costs of feeding
and maintaining the rest of the flock, so their relations benefit.

*As for banging your auntie, I'm really disturbed to hear that.*

Nicky you refuse to understand nature. Its their aunties they bang,
as its natural. We don't need to breed them, they do it all by
themselves. It seems you think that they should not lead natural
lives after all. Once again, you are confused, for lack of understanding of other species.

*Absolutely no dignity, my sister, who did, tells me.*

Well no dignity either, when you sit on the toilet Nicky,
that's just life.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/conservation/kangaroo-cull-protest-blunder/2008/05/20/1211182776399.html

Nicky, now your mob are upsetting the kangaroos! What amazes me
is when people like Peter Garrett can see it, but like fanatics,
you lot seem blind to the realities of nature.

The psychology behind it, kind of interests me. Is it your own
terrible fear of death? So you empathise with others and are
overwhelmed with irrational emotions perhaps.

One thing that living amongst nature has taught me, is to accept
death as I accept birth, as all part of the natural cycle.
To some it happens sooner, to some later, some never live at
all, but could have been.

When your little sperm swam like hell, tens of millions of others
perished and were flushed down life's toilet, so that you may
live. Are you feeling guilty?

If you start to accept nature for what it is, rather then flipping
out on other weird philosophies, then the world makes huge sense
as it is. But that would be well beyond you to understand,
as you follow your feelings.

Hi all

Yabby, you have a rather different understanding of nature from mine, and Peter Garrett, if you recall, is the man who was right in there for conservation and environmentalism until he became a politician, and approved such abominations as this, and the Tasmanian Pulp Mill to name a couple of examples. One wonders what species the kangaroos are "harming"; I suspect Garrett doesn't know either.

He is also part of a government which "abhors" cruelty to animals yet expands the live export trade back into Egypt (how many chances do those particular savages - and I use the term deliberately - get?).

Your notion of "nature" is that animals live only as long as you (humans generally) allow them to, and in that time, and beyond it, they are to be exploited to the maximum. Nothing especially natural about that, I'm afraid.

While you may not personally put the animals on truck journeys across the country or on live export ships, you sell them in the full knowledge that either or both of those are the outcome. So you are not in any position to take any moral high ground over those who actually do it personally.

I am touched by your interest in what I do, which includes taking social animals on outings on the odd occasion, after which they are very swiftly returned to the "natural" lives where they will definitely live a natural lifespan. That is vastly different from what happens to them at racetracks, rodeos, circuses and zoos.

Cheers
Nicky