Hi all

Digiwigi, thanks heaps for that. To all those concerned (except Yabby, of course) please call and present your concerns.

Yabby, you are not a qualified veterinarian either, so are not in a position to objectively discuss animal suffering. Be a good lad and stay in your box. Unfortunately for you, the animal "libbers" are growing exponentially in numbers, both in this country and internationally, so you will have to get used to treating your animals humanely. Remember the "Five Freedoms"? Read them again.

PALE, once again, your cryptic post, with all the vague allegations it contains (are we to understand you are now threatening Hugh Wirth with something?) leads us to no conclusions about your exclusion from the Handle with Care negiotiations. You can't expect people to defend you on the basis of imprecise allegations. Why can you not progress your own ideas through the channels you say you already have? As we have said before, different organizations have their different strategies and philosophies - that's life and maybe you should move on and do your own thing.

Monday's discussions on the ABC might bring some enlightenment about a lot of things.

Cheers
Nicky

Nicky
Yes and there are a lot more surprises to come.
Quite frankly Nicky its clear who you are to us at pale.
That is why we were asked not to post to you.
Your personality has upset so many people over the years.
Thats a great pity for noth yourself and the animals.

Yes people have different ways of working and pale have lead the way involving Muslim leaders and forming MOUs with regards to Animal Welfare. All this time you lot have done nothing but rubbish us for this.
As for Hugh you know nothing of what I am posting about so why dont you simply butt out.
Hugh Wirth has a great deal of answering to do.
One would be why didnt he get this work to this stage instead of us?
For that matter why didnt Andrew ever request AFIC to assist.
He has twenty years before us to ask.

Its time people opended their eyes to whats really been going on with some Animal Welfare people.
Many people work from their own homes well into the small hours of the evening.
Some of these people are our own Muslim friends whom you Nicky have bagged endlessly
Surprise- Many of them are farmers and their wives and kids.

Thats right Nicky Muslim People farmers and their wives and families working with everyday housewives and half a dozen kind hearted lawyers giving their time for free.

It is the Muslim People with the help of the farmers and the everyday Aussies working united that will finally force so laws to the Animals.

So please try to stop your bagging of all farmers and Muslims and hope things will improve for the animals.
Regardless of anything else Nicky thats all that matters.

We are working for the animals and quite frankly bugger any body else!

*I'm confident you will have much in common*

You can be as confident as you like Dickie, as usual you will no doubt be wrong.
Where did I ever say that I agree with factory farming, as is commonly practised
by the Swiss? My animals don’t live on concrete, neither in cages, both standard
practise in Europe.

Just today I was sowing an oat crop in the splendid sunshine. The ewes and lambs
were happily grazing the new green growth, the dogs came along and went for a swim in the dam. Some wild ducks were eating some oats left over by the sheep.
I actually thought of you lot and about how distorted your views of the world are,
to think of all this as evil. You are clearly out of touch with reality.

The Swiss clearly prefer their factory farmed animals, for they largely deny me access to
their markets, for my naturally produced lamb.

So factory farming is light years ahead heh? Think again Dickie.

Gertrude , yes I think that the world is overpopulated. The main culprit IMHO is
still the Catholic Church, or rather the Vatican. Dickie’s old employer perchance,
who do whatever they can to deny third world women modern family planning,
from the condom, the snip, the pill, you name it, they are against it. Human
suffering is considered “noble” according to warped Catholic dogma. So third
world women pop em out in record numbers whether they want them or not,
our planet keeps growing by 80 million or so a year. The ever growing human
population is our no 1 problem, until we start to get real about dealing with that,
you can forget the rest.

We people Gertrude, are just another species in the scheme of evolution. We
developed slightly larger brains then some of our primate cousins and the ability
to pronounce more then just vowel sounds, unlike them. That meant that language
could evolve in humans, which meant that it was easier for us to share our information. 6 billion brains working together, gives few other species a-chance
to-compete.

*Yabby, you are not a qualified veterinarian either, so are not in a position to objectively discuss animal suffering. Be a good lad and stay in your box.*

Nicky, I never claimed to be a vet, but certainly claimed that you
arn't one, with no qualifications or experience. What I have over
you is 30 years of experience, working with livestock daily.
Your qualifications amount to little more then owning a dog.

You OTOH are still to learn about the difference between a sheep
and a dog. You have lots to learn girl!

"Gertrude , yes I think that the world is overpopulated. The main culprit IMHO is still the Catholic Church, or rather the Vatican."

Hey Yabbadoo. How dumb are you? Your vitriol towards the Catholic church (I'm not a member) is spewed all over OLO. Nothing wrong with that except for your pig ignorance.

Muslims are the largest religion in the world and increasing. Catholic numbers are declining.

Largest populated countries - China, India and the US and not a "Catholic" country in sight.

"Just today I was sowing an oat crop in the splendid sunshine. The ewes and lambs were happily grazing the new green growth,"

Oh Yabby. That's so cute. When will you be loading these lovely ewes and lambs on the ships of death? I'll come down to Freo to bid them cheerio and what do you look like? I'm reluctant to knee the wrong jerk.

And why did the plight of the Burmese come to mind today when I was thinking about live exports? Ah.... that's right. 40,000 animals overboard last year and 75,000 2 or 3 years ago which could have fed the starving Burmese or a myriad of other nationalities struggling to survive the wrath of Mother Nature.

Never mind Yabbadoo. Your time is drawing near, along with the rest of the Philistines who have the blood of the defenceless on their hands.

Hi all

Dickie, I don't know about you, but I think I've had enough of this thread. Yabby's self-interested propaganda is one thing, but the tragic, baseless rubbish PALE keeps coming up with is boring me to oblivion.

I have repeatedly stated that I do not condemn all Muslims, nor all farmers, only some of each for some of the activities they get involved in.

PALE, for the record, Andrew Bartlett entered the Senate in about 1997, from memory. Before that, I understand he was a Social Worker. You could check his website to confirm that. "Do the maths", as the Americans say. Nor has PALE been around for 20 years, by its own admission.

Andrew Bartlett has clearly made a reasoned judgment about why he does not want to get involved with you, and I suspect it is because of the claptrap you consistently assail us with, without foundation, and using the worst communication skills most of us have the misfortune to try and interpret. You have probably made his life a misery, and he would be protecting his credibility in his choice of association. That is his absolute right, as it is the right of "all the others" who have made the same judgments about PALE and its questionable claims.

I did not raise Hugh Wirth, you did, and frankly, I couldn't care less what your differences with him are, or about your delusions concerning my identity either.

Your strategy has clearly gone nowhere, in all the time you claim to have been working on it, otherwise we would all certainly know about it. What precisely have your "MoUs with Muslim leaders" achieved? Absolutely nothing.

I remind you that most people working on animal welfare matters do so without payment and "into the small hours". I think it is an excellent idea (your first and only one) that you do not communicate with my posts again. I really can't be bothered since you cannot learn from the fact that people have clearly very understandable and valid reasons for choosing not to have anything to do with you.

Nicky