Yabby, the connection between the general term "Housewife" and "Livestock Producer", as far as synonymity goes, totally escapes me, I'm afraid. Tim D'Arcy is senile if he thinks any animal protection organization is going to contribute as much as one cent to continue a trade that most Australians despise. Just another self-interested farming lobby nutter, obviously.

One wonders just whom Mark Vaile has been assisting during his holiday (at taxpayers' expense - again) in the Middle East.

Since journalists are only ever allowed near the "Becrux" and it has a less than exemplary record in animal "care", your point of view is myopic and redundant. You should offer your services as a "stockperson" on the "Al Kuwait", "Bader III" or even the disastrous "Maysora". And also put yourself to the trouble of reading some of the mortality reports compiled by AQIS.

You claim that these animals do well on the ships (gaining weight is not necessarily an indicator, they are basically fed bulk rubbish to ensure that; conditions on these tramp ships breach all of the "Five Freedoms" and that's just for starters). Since you have not seen them you cannot possibly know that. Nor can any decent human being have anything positive to say about the treatment of these animals in importing countries. You have not seen that either, it seems, beyond MLA's rather pitiful split second training video. Tell us - how many people - precisely - does MLA have working DIRECTLY in animal welfare across just the Middle East? How many - precisely - training programs has it REALLY conducted? Now, be a good lad and read the Senate Estimates records from November 2006 in Hansard, in which MLA says it "cannot tell these people what to do", so "nothing can really be done" to address animal welfare in these countries.

Enjoy!
Nicky

Nicky, your understanding of all this is about as naïve as George Bush. Of course
you can’t tell these people what to do. You are not in the school yard here, where
the kiddies are stuck with you, like it or not. Bossy people like you are exactly the
reason why many Westerners get exactly nowhere in the ME. You don’t understand
the culture.

Fact is however, Islam, which matters a great deal in the ME, is quite clear about
treatment of animals. By combining this fact, with some people skills and some
win-win technical solutions, you can move mountains if you get people on side.
Your big stick approach will achieve exactly the opposite. The Arabs are a proud
culture, ignore it at your peril. Frankly, they are sick of ignoramuses like you and
George Bush!

As it happens, Siba ships are busily building two spanking shiny new boats in
Singapore. But we don’t even need to discuss boats, for nothing is good enough
for you, so the point does not even matter and is irrelevant. Your ideology is
the problem, as we have established.

Now you claim that the sheep gain weight because they are fed rubbish. Hehe.
Do you know anything about rumen function and what to feed ruminants and
when? Once again, you are out of your depth Nicky, as per usual in this
discussion.

If you want to know exact details about what MLA are doing, you are free to
contact them and ask. I don’t do your homework for you. Some are full time,
some are part time. At least they are doing something, unlike the animal
rights movement.

I remind you that millions upon millions of animals are slaughtered each year
that are not Australian, far more then Australian ones. You are free to use
your millions to improve their welfare, but of course you don’t. If they
are not from Australian farms, it seems you could not care less. So Tim
D’Arcy’s point is a valid one. Put up or shut up.

Each time we 'put up' you dont reply. I have told you before IMIOP you are not a big live exporter. You have addmitted to that in the past.

You claim you dont know what I am talking about. Fair enough I wouldnt expect you to understand all the dirty business if you havent been closely involved with players.

We have, been involved and working with our MOU with Muslim Leaders. We have sat at the table and talked to people from overseas for years who were happy to operate here.

Now thats a pity really because what it all boils down to is your wrong quite often actually.

I can recall when I first started six years ago the RSPCA CEO warning me that the others wouldnt listen because they are so bloody jealous the the animals came last in the end.

I have seen that so many times with your lot Nicky its shameful. Even the Government are fully aware of the 20 years of disunity and the inta fighting.

The only difference being Yabby that at least Nicky has the moral fiber to care about these animals.

Only a retard would keep going on about the good conditions on board these ships after the 'bloody' treatment of the poor creatures has been splashed all over teli for no less than five times.
We had our own people there as eye witnesses yabby. Government workers seeing it DAILY how animals are treated there - and people as well

Five times in a row 60 minutes copvered this cruelty. Never been done before. Its just a shame they didnt hear about AWB until it was too late. Now I think its fair enough to say Yabby if leading journos didnt know the AWB comnnection why should everyday people. I told your lot Nicky but 'as usual' they didnt listen.

Yabby Nickys more right than wrong because Australia is the largest so quite clearly if the low life weak 'spines- less' two faced morons who are in Government had the balls to do the right thing live exports would stop.

Pinocchio said
Nicky, your understanding ..
Pale- Umm Yabbsie that’s not terrible informed now is it. Why do you think Howard and others refused to stop it and reopen plants? You must know that this was USA driven - don’t you?
Yabbs said
You don’t understand .. Gertrude does Yabbs ;)

Pale comments
It’s really quite simple it’s not them who don’t want business in Australia it’s the Government in bed with their ‘Special friends’ within the industry that drive the live trade.
Here is just a little example ;)

http://www.thepremier.qld.gov.au/library/pdf/us.pdf

Yabby said-
If you want ...

Pale replies
I can tell her that Yabbs. Can I, Can I, pick me. pick me ;)

Well, now where I start. Hey I know, I will tell her about the talks we held with leaders from Malaysia. I will tell her how’ happy’ they were to do co joint ventures with Aussie farmers.

I will tell her about grand plans to build a whole port just to handle Halal through JAKIM and be the hub of the world for Halal and to distribute through to ME.

I will tell her about the show of good intention and the interest to build the first large gas plant at Coominya to render animals unconscious before slaughter sending much product off in whole carcass-pending staff.

As Dr Ameer Ali said when president of AFIC- "most Muslims" readily except pre stun meat and there is no reason that can not be done in Australia.

There are of course more err, extreme Muslims who do not except pre stunning.

So the question is why the Government would be taking our public Australian tax dollars to build abattoirs anywhere other than here- Australia.

As Nicky said what was Vaile doing working when I would have thought fully employed.

Why did MLA tell me personally that Vaile saw shipping ship loads of live sheep from Australia to Kuwaiti as his personal baby?

Why did MLA David Jones try to tell me personally that nothing was happening in Malaysia when it was my proposal to the Government (Malaysian in 2003?

Hi all
Yabby, as usual you are self-contradictory. One minute we "can't tell these people what to do" and the next we can. Only they do not appear to be listening. Since we have given them 30 years to do something about getting it right, it is now time to withdraw from the trade. Grazing animals do not do well on ships, regardless of your self-professed superior knowledge. If they did, they would not be continuing to die in their tens of thousands of the SAME CAUSES despite the vast investments of taxpayers' dollars into MLA's "research and development". They mustn't be very good at it.

PALE, I don;t know to whom you are referring as "my lot". Since I am not a member of a group of any kind, I can't really expect to influence the decision-making, nor can I be held accountable for any decisions you dislike that they may have made in the past.

I take it from the various comments in this thread that all bets are off with your Muslim friends. Didn't I say they are not to be trusted? A MoU isn't worth the paper it's written on, and it is of course not binding in any way. Mark Vaile is probably feathering his little nest in the Middle East at taxpayers' expense when he is supposed to be representing his electorate in Parliament.

Cheers
Nicky

Nicky

Yes you did say they are not to be trusted - true.

This was the only way I knew to help Animals.

This is what I do. I can now stand up and swear ;) no pun intended) on the bible that I saw this that.

The Government said that, while Austrade did that- but not this.

Farmers Federation refused to help to tell farmers of his extreme interest from Muslim operator to come meet with them. more. Head of MLA called said this that etc

It’s what I know how to do. I am an independent witness of how it all works. I can say what goes on with Muslim Leaders in Australia. Who is this and who is that.

It comes in very handy when putting the bigger picture together.

This is why I push for the AWB enquiry to resume which the Howard Government said hey couldn’t afford. (I am sure they couldn’t, hilarious!

I got an email btw from G today. He said he’d had a complaint about our listing names of live shipping agents on the old Emanuel thread ;)

When I first put this to AFIC they were doing nothing much re Halal meat trade. Amjad and I first kicked it off with a lot of good will.

I have spoken with 60M but at this stage not put anything in writing.

I spoke with Yabbs hero new Ministers advisor a few weeks ago.

To be fair he was very interested in the aboriginal regional area proposal.

Well I hope somebody else does it. I am tired Nicky and probably will back off a lot.Be here if the others need me- which they will say to themselves- well hell freezes over:)

Yabby would be the boy to do that if he sauced a contract for Halal from ME carcass. He could spear head it to his Mr Chance and talk with the locals.

As for up here and the poor cattle I cant even stand to think about it.

You should be nice to Yabbs I suspect he’s got a crush on you:)