*One minute we "can't tell these people what to do" and
the next we can.*

Nicky, clearly the psychology has gone over your head.
You tell schoolkids what to do. If you want results with grown ups,
then achieve win-win situations.. You are not in school here.

*it is now time to withdraw from the trade.*

That is really not your decision, as they are not your livestock and its
not your livelihood. You simply pass ignorant comments from the
cheap seats :)

*Grazing animals do not
do well on ships,*

Clearly they do, they soon adapt and gain weight!

*They mustn't be very good at it.*

Clearly they are, as 1% mortality is quite acceptable amongst sheep on
a boat for a couple of weeks. 99% are thriving. But you would not know
that, unless you had experience with livestock production. As you don’t,
you can’t judge. Qualified vets and experts agree with me, not with you.

Oh Nicky BTW

You should check out the porkies old Yabbs is trying to spin in the meat colum.

Telling everyone that high meat prices have nothing to do with live exports he is.
Check it out.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1563

See you there Yabbs. You know Yabbs in law if someone says something in writing and the other party does not raise any objections that is taken as excepted.

Its really nice you agree with me now - Dont you think so Nicky:)

Once again, Yabby, I would recommend that you familiarize yourself with contents of the judgment in the "Al Kuwait" case, the AQIS mortality reports, and ask when you have actually seen these animals after, say two weeks, on one of these ships. For example, someone who has seen it explained how it comes about that the "food" is basically rubbish by the time it gets to the animals - it does not stand up to multiple handling and disintegrates to dust.

One does not need to be a "livestock" (that's one of your problems, your fundamental perception of animals) producer, or a veterinarian, to know that grazing animals do not adapt, that for every animal who dies, countless others sicken and suffer, and to recognize gross animal abuse and torture when one sees it. It's interesting that you're not able to answer my questions about MLA's activities in the Middle East. Or is it that you don't want to disclose the reality (MLA doesn't want to either). You should just face the fact that the trade is "going out backwards"; I'm sure that you people will find other means of exploitation of your animals. The problem is that you are all too immersed in your own wallets to see it. As I have said before, other people have to make their "livelihoods" within the constraints of morality, human decency, community expectations, governmental and environmental policies as they evolve.

PALE, I would have thought that the Emanuels information was a matter of public record. The judgment is readily available. If these people face court on these charges they should expect to be named (even if they do escape on a technicality in the law - which further proves the total lack of responsibility of this industry throughout its chain of activities). Animal law programs are now being offered at several universities now, so the issue of technicalities like this wil be addressed before long.
Cheers
Nicky

Nicky

With respect, you say your working on your own.

You take off AA sites and PETA - It shows you care. The problem is IMOP the lead ship.

If we look at all your comments to Yabbs there isn’t one new thing...
He’s not worried about the letter from the oil riggers because its read to death for years.

We work at the level where we know it hurts. Thats what you and your friends must do.

We must take over the meat trade and that’s easier said than done.

It’s not undoable.

For your buddies there is a trail of evidence to follow.
It is with the Department of Foreign Affairs and trades and Regional Developments grants and the use of the public’s purse to build plants in ME with our money.

I posted the enquiry into abattoirs in WA a while ago Nicky.



Look at the share holders who closed on the bank loans to the abattoir owners.

Look Nicky at the connections to live export companies and Look at Vaile’s involment.

You guys need DIFFERENT council and a different approach.Dont rubbish us for raising AWB all the time THINK why we might be doing it instead- look and think and learn.

Unlike Dicky and even Yabby who put their hand up and said Hello I am blab la contacting you about live exports.

You in particular Nicky despite the fact we are a member institute with a web site and knowing we are working for the animals have never once emailed us.

Most of your posts have been to rubbish us Nicky – and again I put it to Why.
Your lot knows nothing all about the industry with zero desire to learn.

If you don’t know – Yabby`s are going to chew you .

Have you ever- just ever stopped to think Yabbys might be right on "some points;" What if fund raising and ego`s come first?

What If - For The Animals.

*It's interesting that you're not able to answer my questions about MLA's
activities in the Middle East.*

Nicky, I don’t answer, as I am not your nursemaid. You are quite capable of
finding out that information yourself, just like the 45’000 members of MLA,
to whom it is sent on a regular basis. Read their annual report, read their
publications, its all in there. I don’t see why any of us should make anything
easier for you. You the pedantic critic, can get off your butt, if you so desire.

*"food" is basically rubbish by the time it gets to the animals - it does not
stand up to multiple handling and disintegrates to dust.*

Nicky, a little something about the sheep industry. These days, to improve
meat quality, glycogen levels etc, millions of lambs go into small paddocks
or feedlots. They are fed either grain and hay, or pellets made in the same
machines, with much the same ingredients, as the live sheep pellets. Making
pellets in itself is a science, with lots of things that can go wrong, like not enough
binder, so they go dusty. These are all normal industry hazards. Do you think
that out in paddocks, where sheep graze, there is no dust?

In these feedlots, farmers face the same problems and diseases that live shippers
face, although perhaps with a higher mortality. So all the problems that you raise
are well known and openly discussed. The only difference is that at sea, any deaths
are counted, to keep people like you happy, on land they are not.

*grazing animals do not adapt,*

Rubbish. 98-99% adapt quite well to change, a small percentage don’t. Most
people adapt to change, a small % don’t. We have anorexics and people who
want to kill themselves, despite every available treatment. Even your doctor
will tell you that he can’t help a small % of patients. Being pedantic by nature,
you expect perfection in an imperfect world. That’s the real problem.

Yabby, in whose opinion is a 1% death toll acceptable?

PALE:
1) You are the only person who appears to have a problem with the leadership of other animal protection groups.

2) Why on earth would I want to email PALE? The absolute last thing I would want is for PALE to know where I am in NSW or be able to contact me personally

3) There is no way in the known universe that you will succeed in "taking over the meat trade", nor will you find an animal protection group to support you in such an exercise in futility (quite apart from the philosophical and behavioural differences). Get a grip.

Nicky