AC,

"You can all say I'm a shill for Russian propaganda or whatever, but what the morons don't realise is I get my info just as much from Western sources, just not the ones you dingbats listen to."

So are these the sources that told you that the Ukrainians were trying to ban the Russian language? You know the claim that I forced you to admit was mere Russian propaganda.

Are these the sources that told you Odessa would be the next to fall?

Are they the sources that told you there's be a massive break-out after the fall of Bakhmut?

Great sources you've got there AC. But if they tell you what you want to hear then all good.

"YOU DO REALISE THAT PUTIN OFFERED PEACE LAST APRIL AND THE WEST SCUTTLED IT?"

Yes basically Putin said that if you give him everything he wants, he'll stop fighting!! For now!!

"Do you care about lines on a map, or would you rather have your father, your husband, you son returned to you unharmed."

You go on as though only Ukrainians are dying here. Ask all those same questions about Russian mothers and fathers. What you really demand is that one side stop fighting so that the side you favour wins by default. But it won't be over because it never is with expansionist states. At some point someone, somewhere has to say this far and no further.

I first heard about the 'banning of the Russian language' issue back in 2014, just after the coup, I remember seeing the news reports of it through whatever youtube videos I was watching at the time, and in any case, it's just one small detail, it doesn't change the 'bigger picture' issues.
- Putin opposed Ukraine becoming a part of NATO back in 2008 after it was first mentioned at the NATO Bucharest meeting in 2008.
- America has it's red lines and security interests, but it disregards other nations red lines and security interests.
If Russia or China started building military bases in Mexico, the US would go bat shite crazy over it.
- But if some other country reasonably says we don't want your nukes on our doorstep, the US says screw you we don't give a crap what you say.
This attitude is a huge part of how we got to where we are and I don't support it regardless of the language issue.

As for Odessa, Putin's not done yet.
Who knows what Russian plans are for when the Ukrainian military collapses, they will take whatever they want.
NATO's in no position to fight back anyway, but they do have nukes and the loser would resort to using them, Putin wants to avoid that scenario entirely.

"Are they the sources that told you there's be a massive break-out after the fall of Bakhmut?"
- No that was just me actually, the Russian plan was to just grind down the AFU slowly, and many Russians oppose this slow pace, the issue itself is a large part of the conflict between Wagner and Shoigu / Gerasimov.

These would be your sources.
http://twitter.com/saintjavelin/status/1678495623308275727
wishful thinking mate...

"Yes basically Putin said that if you give him everything he wants, he'll stop fighting!! For now!!"

Go back to 2008, he wanted security guarantees
NO NATO for Ukraine, all of this could've been avoided.
But now the Wests word can't be trusted after Minsk anyway.
Russia will take steps to ensure their own security themselves, end of story.
- They won't rely on trust anymore.

"Ask all those same questions about Russian mothers and fathers."
Yeh that's fair but still, Russia lost 27 million people in WWII, Putin's been vindicated in saying the West's an existential threat to Russia, by the Wests own actions, Russians support Putin in much greater unity than any of our western nations.

I'm the one saying all this needless killing needs to stop, but Russia isn't planning on doing so until it's goals are reached.
Ukrainian Nazi government and the poor Ukrainian conscripts, well this is just the way it's going to go.
America should've listened 15 years ago when Putin said Ukraine NATO was a red line.
The US was well aware of Russia's position and they disregarded it.
And we have Assange to thank for the release of diplomatic cable that proves it so.
http://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html

I've told you all this stuff so many times over the years already.
Every 5 minutes some poor fool is dying because of it, and it all could've been avoided if not for a belligerent West.

You all think I'm a shill for Russian propaganda but you all fell for the Wests.
You're all shills of the Bankers, Military industrial complex, Neoconservative warmongers for America's 'We rule the world and make the rules' global hegemonic attitude towards others.
America doesn't care about democracy or the Ukrainian people.
Ukrainians (and their lives and country) are just tools being used to try to undermine Russia, so that US troops don't have to die doing it, as a direct confrontation between Russia and the US wouldn't be popular.

The US says the number one threat to the US is sovereign citizens.
So why else would it put Ukrainian NAZI nationalists into power?
It's not about Ukraine or democracy, it's always been about Russia, money and global hegemony.

Before you all criticise me, try listening to someone who has a far greater knowledge than I.
You'll hear many of the things I've stated echoed by someone way smarter than myself.

http://youtu.be/x8Fs1IyAKYA

Then ask yourselves who amongst you claims to know better?
Also ask who the people are that are lying to you.

I've been trying to tell you all for years, but you just refuse to listen.
If you don't want to listen that's fine;
- but I'm getting tired of repeating myself against all you know-all know-nothings.
Go back and keep lapping up the total bullcrap you're constantly being fed.
- And to which you all so foolishly keep on going back for more.

AC,

you wrote: "it's [The banning of Russian]just one small detail, it doesn't change the 'bigger picture' issues."

No argument. But it doe show your propensity to be led down the garden path. You believed it, you told me, because Lavrov had said it and you couldn't imagine him lying. But I proved he was. A more honest observer would then start to wonder what else was being lied about. But you just kept on believing everything else. In other words, everything the Russians say is true unless proven false....everything the Ukrainians say is false unless proven true. This is not the path to understanding.

AC, you might notice that I make no predictions about the war or the final outcome. I, of course, follow the threads of the battles and the strategy, but I've studied more than enough history over the last 50 years to know that outside observers can never hope to pierce the fog of war. Both sides are lying. Propaganda abounds. Thinking you can see through that via twitter et al is plain bonkers.

You've made moral judgements about Russia's right to determine policy for its neighbours - deciding who can and can't join others for mutual defence. I make a different moral judgement. In my view, Russia, under the current leadership, has shown itself to be expansionist and avarice. Therefore nations like Ukraine, the Baltics and Finland have the right to defend themselves against that. Whining that if the US can do it the Russia can do it probably doesn't make much play in the coffee shops of Vilnius or Helsinki.

If, as you claim, Putin just wants to stop NATO from reaching his doorstep, then he's already lost. NATO is already there. I've driven from St Peterburg to the Finish boarder. Its about 100 miles. Stopping Ukraine from joining NATO is now superfluous as regards Putin's war aims if those were his war aims. But they weren't. Reestablishment of the Russian western empire is the aim. Its now also out of reach but the erstwhile victims will still insure themselves for the future.

Dear mhaze,

You've given us the best summary of the situation that
I've read thus far, Thank You!