The Forum > General Discussion > Is not Allowing Ukraine to join NATO the right decision?
Is not Allowing Ukraine to join NATO the right decision?
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Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 23 July 2023 6:00:39 AM
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Hi AC,
The questions I have are: -Is Russia taking sustainable losses? -How can Russia match the industrial and technical capacity of the nations supporting Ukraine? -Why would Ukraine want to take heavy losses in frontal assaults when they can keep picking off the Russian forces with their technical advantages? -How strong will the Russian defences be in six months time? -Will Putin be able to conduct another mobilisation to bolster his rapidly depleting forces? I think that Putin is digging a big hole for himself and I doubt that the Russian army will stay in it with him for much longer. Posted by Fester, Sunday, 23 July 2023 7:10:38 AM
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Fester,
AC's facts and opinions are primarily sourced from Russian propaganda blogs. The reality is that the Russians are still taking heavy losses in men but especially in equipment. Russians are losing tanks, guns AFVs at roughly 4x the rate that the Ukrainians are, and the Ukrainians are receiving new equipment faster than it is being lost. The new missiles and cluster munitions are killing Russians at a rate nearly equal to that of the attack on Bakhmut. And Russia can't even protect a bridge 200km from the front line or their ammo dumps that have been exploding spectacularly. The morale on the Ukrainian side is far more robust than for the Russians most of whom were press-ganged into joining. The Ukrainians are advancing slowly but surely and the Russians are bravely running away. The Ukrainians are moving faster than the Russians did during their failed offensive. Quoting Wagner, their losses (not incl the Russian army) lost 20 000 killed and 40 000 severely wounded during their assault on Bakhmut. Meanwhile, the Russian economy is running a budget deficit of about US$10 bn a month. In short, the war for the Russians is not sustainable and they will lose. Posted by shadowminister, Sunday, 23 July 2023 8:22:21 AM
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-Is Russia taking sustainable losses?
Have they had further mobilisations? Have they even pronounced war? -How can Russia match the industrial and technical capacity of the nations supporting Ukraine? The Wests MIC is based around profits and smaller conflicts. They spent years preparing for this war, but were never actually prepared for it, they planned Russian collapse due to economic sanctions, their assumptions have been proven false time and again. They can't match Russian military industrial capacity, due to lacking surge capacity, that is the ability to greatly expand production when necessary. Also western weapons are hugely overpriced, so when they say 1 billion in weapons, it's probably the same as a few hundred million worth in Russia or China. -Why would Ukraine want to take heavy losses in frontal assaults when they can keep picking off the Russian forces with their technical advantages? What technical advantages? What else can they do when they are sent on the offensive? The Wests military is aged and rundown, built around air power and having air superiority. They don't have this. The West lacks the ability or experience to fight prolonged ground wars, lack newer missile defence and jamming technology for example the west has no equivalent for Pansir-S or TOS-1A, Russia has even greatly expanded and improved its drone capabilities Russia Unveils ‘Product 53’, A Next-Gen Kamikaze UAV "and its production http://youtu.be/BrOcqDdNpbU Even S-300 is better than Patriot, the F-16 will be a challenge but nothing that Russian air defence can't take care of, and US tanks will burn just as easily as the Leopards. Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 23 July 2023 10:16:02 AM
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-How strong will the Russian defences be in six months time?
Probably stronger than they are now, not that Ukraine has even reached them yet. -Will Putin be able to conduct another mobilisation to bolster his rapidly depleting forces? They're still adding to their troop numbers quietly. They had to after Finland joined NATO, which required a larger border force. - But they've had some 70,000 volunteers in the last few months, and the Russian people are now unified against the west in another 'Great War' struggle. They will surely be able to get another 500k troops no problem if the need arises. I think that Putin is digging a big hole for himself and I doubt that the Russian army will stay in it with him for much longer. - They fight for Russia, just as the Ukrainians fight for Ukraine. The West has acted hostile towards Russia and it's people, and the people know it. They know Putin wasn't lying about the West or its plans. That's why Putin's approval rating has gone up during the conflict. Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 23 July 2023 10:18:07 AM
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ShadowMinister is just regurgitating tired talking points meant to bolster troop morale, western politicians (and weapon support) and citizens at home.
He may as well be bleating about Saddams WMD's. It about as true as 'Russia is running out of missiles', which they've been saying from the beginning, it's all lies and mistruths. The West knows how to manipulate it's own people better than it can fight wars. "The Ukrainians are advancing slowly but surely and the Russians are bravely running away." Where on the map has Ukraine advanced? And where on the map did Russians run away? - You're a propagandised fool who's not in touch with reality. Ukrainians haven't advanced anywhere on the front line for over a week, all their offensives have failed (but they keep on trying and dying- that's why morale is in the toilet), the ones that succeeded Russia lead them into well prepared traps, and for what I hear Russia is now advancing and taking more territory than Ukraine as it's weapons and ammo dwindles. Russia is recapturing much of the territory it lost earlier in the Ukrainian counter-offensive. Also moving closer to Lyman and Kupiansk, and tightening the noose around Avdiivka Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 23 July 2023 10:32:18 AM
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Front-line Ukrainian soldiers told Kyiv Post their units are suffering from poor morale because of constant and accumulating losses, sometimes poor support and limited summer offensive ground gains against a tough and deeply dug-in Russian opponent.
Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) enlisted soldiers in individual interviews said slow, deliberate assault tactics currently used by Ukrainian military that have left individual fighters strongly suspecting they will be hit, and possibly killed, well before a break-through on the front could take place.
“The situation is very hard. The Russians were given too much time to get prepared for the widely announced Ukrainian counteroffensive. It was clear to them that one of the directions of the Ukrainian strike, if not the main one, would be Zaporizhzhia,” a combat medic said. He requested Kyiv Post not make his name public.
He added: "And they prepared very well… Every square inch is mined. They plant mines on approaches to their positions and blow them when they retreat.
“Nobody expected the whole terrain to be mined, so we’ve been banging our heads against the minefields, moving at a snail's pace,” he added. "We really lose very many sappers. They always go ahead of the troops.”
The soldier said front-line AFU units suffer slow drip losses of dead and wounded not just to minefields, but to booby traps, shell strikes, tanks firing from the far side of a distant hill, drone-controlled artillery and guided and unguided aerial bombs.
He said in his unit soldiers are still willing to attack, but the ration of very little gained for fellow fighters killed or wounded was demoralizing.
“In one month, we have only advanced one kilometer and a half… We move forward by inches, but I don’t think it’s worth all the human resources and materiel that we have spent,” the medic said.