The outcome of this war will not only determine how
people will live in Ukraine, but also how they will live
in the UK, Germany, France, Poland, Estonia, Latvia or
Lithuania in the years to come. It's a way for the future
of Europe and for the world order that has been so obviousy
violated by the Kremlin.

Few thought it possible - but Ukraine has persevered.
And Ukraine's focus is not only on winning the war, but also
on winning the peace. Ukraine has shown the world how
bravely it can fight now it needs to be given the chance
to show the world how it can change - reform, and modernize.

For that reason a strong Ukraine needs to be given the
opportunity to be a member of the EU and NATO.

Hi Foxy,

"For that reason a strong Ukraine needs to be given the
opportunity to be a member of the EU and NATO."

Ukraine's immediate membership of NATO would trigger WWIII, of which the consequences of are too terrifying to contemplate. Please agree.

History shows, military agreements/pacts/alliances don't bring us peace, they edge us closer to war with each new signing.

The simple NATO rule is that no country can join the alliance if it is at war or has any current boarder dispute. Thus Ukraine cannot join until such time as its issues with Russia are fully resolved. And who knows how long that'll take.

OTOH, it may be academic. Poland, fast becoming one of Europe's economic powerhouses, is also planning on becoming its most formidable military power. And as it takes on this roll, it is gathering other states threatened by Russia into a loose informal alliance within NATO. While Poland cannot enter a formal alliance with Ukraine while-ever Ukraine is ineligible for NATO membership, Poland may, in the not distant future be able to wrap a brotherly arm around Ukraine to defend it against Russian imperialism.

Putin's decision to absorb Ukraine has been a disaster for Russia. Apart from showing how poor the Russian forces are, it has caused states like Finland and Sweden to join the NATO alliance and is now fostering a new informal conglomeration of anti-Russian states centred around a newly powerful Poland.

Paul writes: "History shows, military agreements/pacts/alliances don't bring us peace, they edge us closer to war with each new signing."

That's just not true. History might have plenty of examples of alliances at war, but it doesn't show that the creation of the alliances cause war. The opposite in fact. The only way small powerless states can hope to remain free is through alliances. What history does show is that lack of alliances means powerful states ride roughshod over the powerless.

Dear Paul,

Sorry but I don't agree with you in this case.

It's only through NATO membership that Ukraine can
experience true security in the face of repeated
Kremlin aggression. Their fight has been a stand
against authoritarianism and they have earned a
secure and lasting peace within NATO and the EU.
With its brutal war, Moscow has forfeited any
moral say in whether Ukraine should join NATO
or not.

And, the addition of Europe's most battle-hardened army
with more personal under arms than most member states
should stiffen NATO'S military punch.

http://wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/not-allowing-ukraine-nato-and-eu-risky

Dear mhaze,

Thank You for the information and for reminding us that:
"What history does show is that lack of alliances means
powerful states ride roughshot over the powerless."

"Now I don't propose to go through the whole of the survey to explain it to AC, because that'd be futile."

You may fool the other useful idiots but you don't fool me.

Page 17... you ignore everything else, and go to that.
- That's where you want to draw your line hey?

You ignore the part where the US itself calls the document "Public Opinion Survey Residents of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea'

Under Yanukovych it's an 'Autonomous Republic'
- Under US puppet rule is a part of Ukraine worth going to WWIII over?
Sounds like conquest and imperialism, not democracy.

What do you think the idea there was, testing the water to see which way the wind blows if they start protests in Crimea?
- Separate Crimea from the Yanukovych government?

All seems strange that the US refers to it as an autonomous republic in 2013, but then carries on like a child for the next 10 years about the people choosing to become autonomous and then choosing to become a part of Russia.

Democracy my ass...

But let's go to page 17.
http://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/pnaec705.pdf
I don't even know why I'm bothering doing this since you're really weak as piss when it comes to a discussion on merit.
- Bitching for comment after comment like a 6yo saying 'are we there yet' about something you claimed I said 12 months ago, but when some documents are slapping you in the face, it's 'move along nothing to see here'
- Pathetic.

Page 17
Prior to the Maidan (Under the claimed 'Pro-Russian' leader Victor Yanukovych -
53% of Crimeans - wanted to become Autonomous region in Ukraine
2% of Crimeans - wanted to be a normal region in Ukraine.

- Ah but you skipped that inconvenient truth just as you did all the others, didn't you?
You should've become a politician, you have great weasel qualities that only other scumbag weasel pollies could admire mhaze.