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The Forum > General Discussion > Putin Talks of Negotiation over Ukraine,

Putin Talks of Negotiation over Ukraine,

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Hi Foxy,
Even if it was proven that Putin was the most evil man alive and that he liked to eat babies for breakfast,
- it doesn't mean I'd oppose one evil to support another.

What's my opinion over here?
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=10010&page=0#342376
'None of the above'; and why?
- Because I think some things the left does is stupid and I think some stuff the right does is stupid.
Often, things both sides support like wars - are not at all in the citizens best interests.

I don't support what the West does.
The article you gave me, from a think tank (i.e payment for advocacy tank)
Well, the first thing it did was mention Madeleine Albright.

Madeleine Albright - The deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children was worth it for Iraq's non existent WMD's
http://youtu.be/RM0uvgHKZe8

You want me to oppose one bad actor to support another.
- Where I'd rather not choose between two evils, and instead say 'None of the above'.

Why can't the West 'Treat others the way it would like to be treated'
Why can't it respect other peoples security interests the same as it expects for itself?

Why does it have to intervene in other countries?
Did Afghanistan become democratic?
Look at Libya, and more, here's a list.
http://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list

Why do we need a unipolar world?
A rules-based-order where the US sets the rules and does whatever the hell it wants?
Why can't we have a multi-polar world built on mutual respect towards others?
Instead of its liberal interventions, why can't it just 'Lead by example'
Why does it have to rule by threats, coercion, intimidation, lawfare etc.
And do they really care about these others countries?
Or is it all about robbing them under the cover of human rights;
- And maintaining it's own western global hegemony?

Stay on top by knocking others down?
- So a few can profit from the chaos?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 31 December 2022 8:07:24 AM
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Hi AC,

Putin behaves like a serial killer in a bad movie,
killing people right, left, and center leaving
his signature behind. His methods range from
throwing people out of windows, using chemical
agents,, freezing the sick and the vulnerable,
to taking out Ukraine's electric infrastructure
with missiles. Meanwhile the oligarchy does
nothing to stop him, they allow him to kill them
off one by one wherever they are in the world. They
continue to get rich - until their turn comes to
be thrown out of the window.

This is not a war just about territory. Putin wants to
force the West and countries in the post Soviet
region to accept limited sovereignty, he wants to
push the US presence out of eastern Europe and to
strengthen his own autocratic kleptocracy, to preserve
his power.

Putin wants acceptance for his worldview at large -
that nuclear powers do what they want and smaller nations
just fall into line.

I think that Russia is a place being destroyed by criminals
some outside driving tanks others in the ranks of the regime's
apparatus. We're back with a criminal state and madness in
Russia.

There's very little chance of finding another Gorbachev.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 31 December 2022 9:38:19 AM
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Hi AC

500000 Iraqi kids killed by the US? Apparently the figures were compiled from data provided by the Bath party to get sanctions against Iraq lifted, and may have included Kurdish children killed by Iraqi chemical weapons strikes. I guess we form opinions of things based on what we see.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/08/04/saddam-hussein-said-sanctions-killed-500000-children-that-was-a-spectacular-lie/

One thing that could be hard to cover up is a Russian defeat in Ukraine. Defeating Putin's terrorist army will make it much tougher for the gangsters to keep control in Russia and will hopefully give momentum for a push to democracy. If there is an example of control of a population by wealthy and powerful amoral elites it is surely Russia.
Posted by Fester, Saturday, 31 December 2022 10:14:29 AM
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Hi Fester,
Sometimes it's hard to know what the correct position on a certain topic is.
Look at democracy, a succession of 'pass the baton politics' in a 2 party preferred system
(where the 2 parties prefer you only ever vote for them)
- And with a grand end goal utopia of 'You will own nothing and be happy'...

I hope you all understand that I'm not necessarily supporting a bad thing
- Anymore than I'm opposing what I see an another bad thing.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 31 December 2022 10:47:21 AM
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Paul,

I see that you are now a Putin fanboy. You seem to fantasize about dictators.

"Russia is ready to negotiate with all parties involved in the war in Ukraine but Kyiv and its Western backers have refused to engage in talks, President Vladimir Putin said in an interview aired on Sunday (Christmas Day)."

Considering the pre-conditions for these negotiations as stated by Lavrov that Ukraine cede all the occupied territories and demilitarize
are clearly unacceptable this is a farce.

Ukraine is clearly beating the Russians and is in no mood to come to the table until Russia is prepared to de-occupy all of Ukraine as before 2014. The issue for negotiations would be around war crime tribunals for Putin and his mates and the continuation of the sanctions devasting Russia's economy.
Posted by shadowminister, Saturday, 31 December 2022 3:05:51 PM
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AC,

Russia has been trying to take Bakhmut for 5 months, attacking the heavily fortified city over open fields which are now stinking from the rotting bodies of 1000s of dead Russians.

Since you were telling me how well the Russians were doing, they have lost the entire Kharkiv oblast, Kherson city, and the Ukrainians are slowly advancing through Luhansk and are about to take Kermina.

Russia has lost its best tanks, men, APVs, and many helicopters and aircraft. Crimea and Donbas are under constant attack and the newly mobilised troops are dying like flies. With the oil price cap, Putin has lost most of his oil and gas revenue and is losing more equipment than he can replace. The Russian budget is well into deficit and Putin is taking money from health care, education etc to divert to his ever-dwindling war machine.

All while the US and EU are supplying a steady stream of arms and ammunition and ever more sophisticated weapons.

Any dreams of Russia taking Odesa and more of the Donbas are laughable.
Posted by shadowminister, Saturday, 31 December 2022 3:06:16 PM
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