Boaz, obviously you are not reading my responses properly. I said to you, if the statement was authentic, it would be a reference to the Qur`an verse. This verse speaking about those who have not menstruated, this is a safety measure so that women who never menstruate or have irregular periods can still have their period of waiting. The verse says nothing about puberty, it simply says: Those who do not have their courses. I told you, my three Arabic copies do not have this alleged Hadith, come and inspect the pages for yourself. However, despite that, I told you that even if there was such a Hadith, I would be certain that the Arabic would be different to the English translation, that is an educated guess, this is why I would like to get the Arabic on which your translations are based, regardless of whether or not that Arabic is authentic. There is no suggestion in the Qur`an at all of underage sex, anybody that makes such a suggestion is speaking with a limited knowledge of women and their courses, this person may have never heard of a case of a woman not menstruating. That is not my problem, it seems to be your problem though, enough of a problem that you throw wild accusations, perhaps a sense of guilt over the topical paedophilia in the Church.

No Boaz, there is no love in your comments, just blind hatred and a closed-minded approach.

You just ignore all the great work of the messenger of Allah, peace and blessings upon him, for some obscure accusations and weak translations.

Again, Boaz, I will leave you with more words of this wonderful messenger of God, peace and blessings upon him, no one is compelling you to read my words or comment on them, but embracing him will liberate you from your own self-consuming hatred.

Muhammad, the messenger of God, peace and blessings upon him said: Paradise is under the feet of the mother.

He also said: The best of people are those who are most helpful to others.

My love and prayers.

BOAZ, K. TRAD and OTHER religios please read carefully.

I do not know whether there exists an entity that could be described as the creator of the universe. In that sense I am agnostic.

If a creator exists I do not know whether IT had anything we would recognise as a purpose in creating the universe.

If the creator had a purpose it is possible that we humans are as incidental to that purpose as were the rats on Columbus' ships to Columbus' purpose.

The actual reasons, if any, for the creation of the universe could lie beyond our event horizon so we may never know.

So much for what I do not know.

This I do know.

None of you can produce a shred of evidence that your holy books (so-called) are the "word" of the creator of the universe.

Looking at the koran and bible there is much evidence they are NOT the "word" of the creator. For one, neither book is consistent with what we now know about the nature of the world.

Muslim, Jewish and Christian scholars do make heroic attempts to reconcile their texts with science. They offer elaborate and misleading re-interpretations of scientific findings. They produce convoluted interpretations of their texts.

The interpretations are often 20 to 50 times as long as the text they are attempting to explain!

The net result is some of the most comical writing I have ever seen.

Monty Python could not have come up with anything funnier.

I'll leave you all with this thought. If your holy book rejects evolution – including the common ancestry of humans, chimps and other primates with cats, rats and dogs – then your holy book is wrong and CANNOT be the "word" of the creator of the universe.

Unless, of course, aforementioned creator has a really wicked sense of humour.

If there is a creator I believe it is GOD THE DIVINE COMEDIAN. Only a truly SUBLIME HUMORIST could create intelligent beings capable of producing this thread

Hear hear steven...

I have been diligently following this thread, hoping in vain for something remotely enlightening. It has of course degenerated into the usual "my god's better than yours" p*ssing match, dressed up as genuine concern for the spiritual well being of the poor misguided adherent of the "other" god.

I really feel sorry for you all.

As Sam Harris says so eloquently in "The End of Faith"

"If, as I contend throughout this book, all that is good in religion can be had elsewhere - if, for instance, ethical and spiritual experience can be cultivated and talked about without our claiming to know things we manifestly do not know - then all the rest of our religious activity represents, at best, a massive waste of time and energy. Think of all the good things human beings will not do in this world tomorrow because they believe that their most pressing task is to build another church or mosque, or to enforce some ancient dietary practice, or to print volumes of exegesis on the disordered thinking of ignorant men. How many hours of human labour will be devoured, today, by an imaginary God? Think of it: if a computer virus shuts down a nation's phone system for five minutes, the loss in human productivity is measured in billions of dollars. Religous faith has crashed our lines daily, for millennia. ... (But) we should still recognize what a fathomless sink for human resources (both financial and attentional) organized religion is."

Quite.

KTRAD,

You say “I see non-religious extremists committing murder and other crimes in every country, when this happens in a Western country, I do not blame their religion for it, I do not call them Christian extremist.”

You make my point for me. The non-religious extremists (what few there are) are not acting in the name of Christianity. The insurgencies across the globe are, so they say, acting in the name of Islam.

You say >> “The murderers who killed Daniel Pearl were not a state, they were not a nation, they were simply murderers, you cannot compare them to the state-run Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib”

What about the theocratic regime in Tehran, state sponsors of terrorist group Hezbollah? Or the Taliban, protectors of Al Qaeda. How about Hamas? Treatment meted out to prisoners in Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia is regularly far more brutal than the treatment of prisoners in Abu Ghraib. Beheadings, limb amputations and floggings are common place. In Iran they stone people to death, how barbaric can they get?

I find it surprising that you refuse to answer simple questions, or at the very least post a link to your answers. I have tried to find your supposed responses to these questions and I cannot do so. But why would I go to a website, where there is every possibility that someone has altered your responses. If you don't wish to participate in an open debate thats OK, thats your right, but it is beginning to seem to me that you are just hiding and that you are worried your answers will alienate your new found devotees from our soft-left.

SO! What are your views on Polygamy for Muslims in Australia? Do you think that homosexuality is an abomination and should be made illegal? Is there a role for Sharia Law in this country?

Did you say “yet, from the Muslim viewpoint, our ideology is the best salvation for the people of Australia, and the people of the world in general. Yes, we are a threat to the culture of drunkenness, pedophilia”

cont,

con't

Did you say this “They do not film a fat Australian woman in tight bicycle shorts …an Australian drunk … or an Australian welfare cheat. NO!! They show a Muslim woman wearing a Hijab, she is not assimilating”

Your boss Hilali, said, in 2004

Sons of Islam, there is a war on infidels taking place everywhere. The true man is the boy who opposes Israeli tanks with strength and faith. The boy who, despite his mother's objections, goes out to war to become a martyr like his elder brother. The boy who tells his mother: 'Oh mother, don't cry for me if I die. Oh mother, Jihad has been imposed on me and I want to become a martyr'."
SEPTEMBER 11 IS GOD'S WORK AGAINST OPPRESSORS. Some of the things that happen in the world cannot be explained; a civilian airplane whose secrets cannot be explained if we ask its pilot who reached his objective without error, who led your steps? Or if we ask the giant that fell, who humiliated you? Or if we ask the President, who made you cry? God is the answer.

Your comment to the suggestion that Hilali had done damage to the cause of Islam in this country

KTrad >>” I don’t accept that allegation. I have worked with Imam Hilali for a long time. I’ve been closely associated with him for five years and I’ve known him for nearly 20 years, and Imam HILALI IS, IN MY VIEW, THE VOICE OF MODERATION IN THIS COUNTRY, and he’s recognised as a voice of moderation throughout the world…. because he’s such an eloquent speaker in Arabic, IT CAN BECOME A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO EXPRESS THE BEAUTIFUL CONCEPTS AND IDEAS THAT HE HAS IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE.” (my capitals)

Regarding Darulfatwa Islamic High Council “They are fully entitled to exist, provided they do it in an open and clear manner. …I would say, ‘Good luck to you, but JUST DON’T COME INTO OUR TERRITORY AND CONFUSE OUR PEOPLE’.

Dear_Kaysar

I hope you are noting, that those most critical of your position here are atheists.

One very perceptive "stickman" said:

<<dressed up as genuine concern for the spiritual well being of the poor misguided adherent of the "other" god.>>

Could this be with reference to?

<<My heart _leeds_for_you.

Love

KatyO, as God is my witness, I have too much love for you to see you tormenting so>>

Kaysar.. "speaking the truth in love" is what Jesus commanded.

and my sister KatieO has actually read Matthew 4:1-11 and knows from whence you come.

I don't know how in this wide world you can enter into my own mind and heart and know what is going on there just from what I post here.
FH found me totally different in person than here.. so, I suggest you liase with him about how much 'hate' I dwell on :)

I detect a difference though between you and he. His position seems to be based on a genuine struggle to make sense of the world, religion, and Islam. He said things during our meeting which indicated this, and on that account, I can understand him better, and hold him close to my heart till this day.

I'm not sure if I could do the same for you, because you approach is too educated, scripted,- too much like one who deliberately adopts a very questionable approach, which includes outright denial of things I believe you know to be huge problems.

STEVEN.. you are right on the money.. as is Sticky... we cannot 'prove' our foundation documents. We can only 'proclaim' the Gospel of Grace and peace and love, of the Son of God, Final Revelation from the Father, and trust that the Holy Spirit will reach into hearts and bring about new lives.

Please bear in mind though, that even though we cannot 'prove' our documents, those same 'unprovable' documents form the basis of actions, and government policies in Sharia states, so to that extent, it is very important to appreciate what the documents (and founders) actually said and did 'according' to those documents.