KatyO, I never condemned you, I pray to God to help you see the light, for if you love God as you say, then eventually you will find the humility to stop judging others through a myopic interpretation of their scriptures whilst making every possible and impossible or implausible excuse for yours.

PaulL, I told you that I have answered all your questions on the forums quoted, I will not waste my word/post limit on OlO to elaborate, look them up.

Boaz, I am happy to show you my Arabic copies, bring your own interpreter if you wish. However, having said that, I told you that even if we assume that the Hadith is authentic, the fact that the translation shows those words in brackets means that this is the translator’s opinion and not part of the Hadith, please read carefully.

Boaz, As much as I love Christ, I do not turn to him but to God directly, for my faith empowers me to appeal directly to God, I do not need any intermediaries whose purported teachings have such a tremendous internal conflict, as I have previously discussed with you in our private emails, but, you have failed to answer my questions and came back to the forum. Suit yourself.

As for Wikipedia, any person can edit Wikipedia, I have complained to them countless times about fallacies that they have presented about me, every time they fix it, some ill-intentioned person seems to get on there and change the entry on me. Wikipedia has very little credibility when it comes to researching people, as my computer magazine asked on the front cover: Is Wikipedia broken beyond repair? My view, judging on their entries on me: Yes, most likely.

I have to leave you with the words of my most beloved messenger of Allah, Muhammad, the light of the hearts and their remedy, a man who has taught me to love you as much as myself, peace and blessings upon him: O Allah, bring guidance to my people(persecutors) for they known not what they are doing(saying).

Love & best wishes

Yeah well Boazy - at this time on a Friday night it looks very much like a Carlton vs Collingwood rivalry, when I've just watched St George just edge out Manly in proper football.

:P

CJ: Well, I'm guessing your premise is that if a point is worth making, it’s worth making twice! One question: where does all this “miserable existence” stuff come from? Apart from a pre-occupation with OLO ;), I have a great life, the type that most people are striving for. When I converted to Christianity, I was at worst, “contented”. I have a wonderful husband, beautiful children, and generally can’t complain (apart from a ski injury that needs some attention). Just four years ago I would have agreed with everything you say about Christians which proves (to me) the transformative power of the gospel….and gives me hope for you too CJ :)

K Trad: I used to say that I had a respect for the bible too. That was until I really came to grips with Christ’s abiding love for us. The bible doesn’t engender respect for the believer, it brings us to our knees.

Muslims do not follow either the Torah or the gospel but the Qu’ran, which claims to be the corrected version of a text corrupted and perverted by the Jew and the Christian. (Surah 5:49) A theological construct which understandably blocks muslims from accepting biblical authority.

However, I can state unequivocally (based on the scriptures) that your Christ is not my Christ. Jesus Christ, the son of God, a member of the Holy Trinity, fully human and fully God, was not a preacher of Islam.

Loving Christ means embracing the real Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for all of our sins and rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures, and desiring to walk in his ways. The Christ that is “part and parcel of the Muslim tradition” is not the Jesus Christ of the New Testament.

But you know this already, so you can’t take offense at my “interpretation” of Islam, else how would you be able to write to a believer of Christ <<then eventually you will find the humility to stop judging others through a myopic interpretation of their scriptures whilst making every possible and impossible or implausible excuse for yours>>.

MY God's bigger'n YOUR God.

So there!

Dear_Kayser.. you are on a fine edge here. You seem to be telling half truths.

Regarding the words in 'brackets'.. I totally agreed that they are the comments of a translator. I didn't argue for that. So.. to 'that' extent your saying ["It" is not in the Arabic] remains true.

PROBLEM is.. the bit NOT in brackets, (I've said this once already, it concerns me that you have ignored this)

states: "And the 'Iddat for the girl BEFORE PUBERTY is three months"

BRACKETED NOTES:

(i.e. they are still immature).

(65.4) (in the above Verse).

So, even leaving aside ALL the bracketed translators notes, we are STILL left with the undeniable fact that a girl before puberty is what is understood by Bukhari himself.

Now.. to quote the late Ahmad Deedat when mocking Christians about our supposed many Bible versions "What Games are you Muslims playing"?

So.. let me ask you again...

DOES your Arabic copy include the reference to "the iddat for those before puberty is 3 months"

as part of Bukhari's hadith Vol 7 book 62 number 63?

I'll persue this to the bitter end.. even if I have to download arabic and get 3 separate Arabic speaking translators to translate without knowing why or what for.

Just yesterday, at a certain place in Melbourne, when enquiring about this matter, the Muslim woman assisting me (when she heard which Quran verse I was researching) said "Oh.. do you know what age Romeo and Juliet were"? to which I replied "No, maybe 14?" a search just now shows Romeo approx 17 and Juliet almost 14.

Note.. ROMEO WAS NOT FIFTY THREE! I cannot comprehend how can describe a 53 yr old man who daily visited a girl playing with dolls and her playmates, and who, by her own confession had sexual relations with her at 9 as:

"my most beloved messenger of Allah, Muhammad, the light of the hearts and their remedy,"

That you promote that man, and that we yet still speak to you in civil terms, is where you will find divine grace, patience and love.

KatyO, as God is my witness, I have too much love for you to see you tormenting so. Even though I do not know you, I feel a love for you that transcends your misunderstandings. I felt joy for you as you expressed your finding of happiness, but, you are not truly happy, your writings exhibit pain and torment, you would certainly be better served corresponding with me privately rather than projecting this torment publicly.

God, the Only God, spoke the Holy Qur`an. He vouched for the chastity of Mary and the prophethood and miracles of Christ, I need nothing else to convince me. But when I read the Bible, I see Christ attacked with so many slurs and when I converse with people like yourself, I ask you, who these days fall on their faces and pray to God like Christ did in the Garden? Certainly not Christians, we Muslims put our faces on the ground, in total humility, as a community before God and pray as Christ did in the Garden.

But a literal reading of the Bible shows that Christ was not a willing sacrificial lamb, because in that garden prayer he asked God to remove that cup from him. And on the cross, your bible claims that he said: My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? The New Testament claims that he was crucified, and the Old Testament says: Cursed is he who is hanged on a tree. You portray a Christ who is rude to his mother saying: Woman, what have I to do with thee. Yet in the Holy Qur`an, God Himself declares the innocence of Christ saying that Christ was: Kind, gentle and loyal to his mother. Then, after your depictions of Christ and allegations that he came to separate son from father and calls for his enemies to be brought so that he can slay them, you crucify him and declare him the god whose flesh and blood must be consumed in churches.

This proves that Islam has honoured Christ more than the Bible.

My heart bleeds for you.

Love