This topic has shown what is wrong with trying to appoint Union Leaders to positions in the ALP without them being proven over time.

It's not the union members that will vote for them that count as there aren't enough Union members to get them voted in... and rightly so.

It is the average Australian that counts who may not belong to a Union. Unionists seem to forget this. If the Union vote was so strong in elections Labor would be in every year.

But Labor has to attract a percentage of the non-Unionist workers, a pecentage of the employers, a percentage of retired people etc. etc.

So just because a Union leader may have been good at what he did he has to impress the average Aussie voter across the spectrum and that will take time. If a Union leader was promoted straight to the head of the ALP the vote will plummet. It's pretty simple stuff.

The average voter doesn't like big company bosses and they don't like Union leaders.

Politicians even today still have it around the wrong way.... the Australian voter must always come first and their party second... Even Johnny doesn't get that simple rule!

No Nick, NO leader should be able to impose his/her will on the factions. As I stated, conceration of power is NOT healthy for any society/faction/political party......

My beleif in Bill Shorten has nothing to do with his union background or any actions he has taken as a unionist.
It has everything to do with watching him talk many times on every day concerns of every day Australians.
I am proudly not concerned at the slurs the AWU has thrown at it by the extremists within the union movement.
The future even under Labor is not for the extreme.
While serviceing ALL unions members on my sites it is clear workers do not always vote Labor.
And clear some never will, remember as you ask why unionists often end up in the house that unions formed the ALP.
My defence of unionism in no way denies the need for constant change and improvement.
The same is true for the ALP just how good would the polls be if our leader was withing 5% of Howard?
Kim please do not keep policys and actions in reserve for an election the voters are makeing choices now.

Belly,

I meant to congratulate you for outlining your affiliations on this thread.

This is worth a read :

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s1596343.htm

I am an unaligned person - I have never been a member of any political party and don't wish to become one, I am a swinging voter having voted for Liberal, Labor, Greens, Democrats and Independents during my voting life.

Declaring one's position also helps so that people know they aren't being diverted from key issues that may effect our country, like the AWB enquiry and some possible ramifications-

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,18637461%255E601,00.html

http://www.news.com.au/index/0,10121,37435,00.html

Also my independence allows me to post links to information that others might find interesting... like this link to where Andrew Bartlett apologises regarding the Dems GST judgements

http://www.democrats.org.au/speeches/index.htm?speech_id=1384&display=1

There will be many people here who take positions due to their biases and yet won't declare them. Australia is a great country but it can so easily be weakened by dishonest Governments, poor oppositions and a lack of options for voters who don't wish to vote for just the two main parties.

That is why Liberal and Labor fail to do what they are truly mandated to do... to represent the whole of Australia without prejudice. Do some pollies breach their oath with some of their actions? And what remedies are in place when if they do breach their oaths?

That is why I believe that the Australian people would be far better served by the Gillard/Rudd team.... Kim has had his day and Shorten is yet to prove himself as a politician...

The ALP has to state categorically that the Australian people ALWAYS come first and foremost over any pressure group including the Unions.

Your views are interesting but not from the majority, like it or not over half of Aussies want Howard as pm.
you can bet those wanting Gillard would not be in double figures.
I would like to see a poll, one for Labor voters only three questions would be enough.
But honesty matters Labor voters only.
Question one Should Labor lead us out of Iraq?
Two should we have new uranium mines?
3 do we need a new leader?
Its my view we sometimes do not ask our members what they or Australia thinks before introduceing new policys, majoritys only can elect goverments.

Belly,

Ah the famous majority .... my views may well be from the majority if the parties put Australian voters first and stopped kissing the butts of pressure groups like unions and employer groups.

Your survey :

The problem in Iraq is the falsified evidence has now proven we shouldn't have gone there in the first place. Imagine presenting the evidence that took us to war in a court... the pollies would be charged with perjury, and attempting to pervert the course of justice. Are pollies above the law?

But just leaving Iraq is too simple a concept. Even though we are wrongly there we know we have made it a more dangerous place... possibly, even probably, a breeding ground for future terrorists. We can't leave the poor Iraqi civillians in a civil war. Labor has to put forward an exit strategy that makes sense. Just pulling out the troops could be worse than the invasion, long term.

I am totally against Uranium mining... why? there are many reasons but two are because it is the most dangerous substance on the planet PLUS because it has such a long life we have to predict and protect against what Govts/terrorists in up to 250,000 years might do with it. This product can be upgraded to weapons grade at any stage in the very long term future. If it falls into the wrong hands ... watch out! What would Bin Laden do with a bucketload of weapons grade Uranium? Labors policy is dense... It should be a no mine policy.

Labor definitely needs a change of leadership... that is of course if they ever want to be taken seriously in the future. They have nothing to lose... Kim has though ... he can add another election loss to his resume. They have not only lost many of their core constituency but many who are against Howard but just couldn't trust the ALP again under Beazley.

The Gillard/Rudd solution I propose would get far more than single figures Belly... Are you showing a biased guess with that comment?