David Boaz,
You also make some interesting observations mate, some I agree with, some I don't but certainly appreciate your input into this conversation.

I would like to see an artice on National Competition Policy v National Excellence and Effinciecy Policy, if we have one, i will explain further.

Haveing left school very early I may not have the education many have who post here.
However I am no mug , the thought that Gillard could ever lead the ALP is so far away from reality that it stuns me.
It is never ever going to happen, the last time a leftist lead the party was before most who post here came into this world.
Beazley can not win ,he holds the leadership for such as Bill Shorten, the best choice, Steve Smith Rudd shudder, or Swan.
Those oposed to Howards distruction of the Aussie fair go, those who in this IR murder of workers rights see and end to Mateship, should look for a wining leader not a Latham clone.
Gillard is a product of the factions she decrys so often in her case the left.

It's time for a new party that backs small business and hard working people in private enterprise.Both parties have failed these two catagories abismally.

The Howard Govt is in the pocket of big business and multi-nationals and Labor panders to dinosaur unionism of the 1930's mentality.

Both parties are still slaves to a socialist state of big Govt that rewards impotence.

Belly,
I understand you mean well mate, but the Labor Party left the battlers behind under Hawke/Keating governments, which is why they deserted the party in 1996. They didn't vote for Howard, they voted against Keating. Gillard/Rudd combination would be good for a party confined to the opposition benches indefineately, heaven forbid Bill Shorten the National Secretary of Australia's Weakest Union [ who takes the bosses word over their own members} is handed the job, if so he will set a record for the longest serving Opposition Leader in history.

The Labor Party needs a re-union with it's traditional working class base, and until that happens {not likely with Shorten, with the reputation the AWU has under he and stupid old Bill Ludwick}the Labor Party will languish in Opposition until they wake up to themselves, Shorten will be an electoral liability, as is his right wing mate, Beazley.

Dream on Belly, but if the ALP wants to be anything except Australia's largest pressure group, Gillard/Rudd partnership is the only way to see a reinvigorated party, ready to take government.

Everyone who enters politics has done a deal with someone. All parties have factions... people of like minds always congregate together - it is that simple. There is no real right or left anymore so that puts that to bed.

The other thing that always astounds me in political debate is that according to many politicians aren't allowed to grow into positions. They aren't allowed to moderate their opinions... according to the many they are fixed in the same position from where they enter politics... What Rubbish!

Secondly everyone always says get elected then change the party from within... John Howard has done exactly that... He got in... surrounded himself with like minds and took the party in a more conservative direction... ask Malcolm Fraser he will explain it to you.

So all that guff about Julia Gillard is just a blind. She has developed as a politician like Rudd, they would make a cohesive team, and she is from Victoria one of the two power States (even though I hate typing the power State bit sorry but it is true).

The fact that she has spoken out about the factions means that she is open to change... she is open to reassessment ... and so that should make her progressive. Kevin Rudd is doing a great job on the AWB thing and has raised his profile significantly.

If Kim resigned tomorrow and Julia Gillard became leader with Kevin Rudd Deputy both uncontested you watch the Labor party's acceptance soar!

But could the men of the Labor party with leadership ambitions actually put Australia first above their ambitions?... They could if they put the good of Australian voters first over their egos but that is what needs to be done.

Organise a smooth transition to the Gillard/Rudd team and resign enthusiastically Kimbo... you know it is in Australia's best interest and as a polly - Australia's interest should always come first! Forget the boys... noone will vote for them

Time for my sins to be layed out, I am a lifetime trade unionist, for the last 4 years a trade union oficial, in the AWU.
Dream on? please yes Australia voted for Howard but take note the floppy all over the shop ALP leadership opened the door for voters to leave.
History shows Aussies are not and never will be leftys, its you shonga a person from my side that dreams.
No ALP goverment would inflict this IR murder on workers ,not just unionists that we suffer now.
Weak? I can show you 90 people who came to me to leave other unions and with pride and truth say each card I hand out comes with this ,quote I will never let you down.
Workers movements exist for the workers only.
Flogging dead horses is a hobby of the left, reality tells me get behind the ALP Shorten will prove a far better outcome for Australia than Lathams lass.