Hey Belly

Sorry mate, but you fail to convince. Describing Gillard as a 'train wreck' doesn't make it as evidence. I am inclined to side with Opinionated on this.

You haven't mentioned Rudd and why do we need another conservative like Shorten? Clearly veering to the Right hasn't worked for Beazley. The public want a real alternative not a facsimile of the Libs.

Unless we have a miracle there isn't a lot to choose from.

Regards

Scout we differ on factions but both want victory , and both think it not posible even with Howards IR,AWB, and a host of lies.
So lets compremise, deep down inside we both know that swing to the right must come or election losses are our only future.
Rudd is not my choice but if he leads soon he can turn this around, ever let a mate down?
I think Kim Beazley is my mate, but request him to go now with grace, this election has to be fought each day as if we want to win it.
Plan only victory or be part of the reason Howard wins.
No leadership roll, forget those polls will come to Gillard if the ALP is planning to win.
policys and leadership alone can turn this around.
Kim mate now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the party, before we inflict a nightmare on Australia, and its workers.

Belly,

The road to having a Labor Govt means you MUST be strong in opposition. You can't have a strong Labor Govt without them proving themselves in opposition first. So what are you suggesting Australians should just trust the ALP without any proof they will be a better Govt than the Libs. It just doesn't work that way I'm afraid.

Gillard and Rudd are doing exactly that... Kim's not your mate... he's the leader of an opposition that looks weak. I watch Beazley in parliament and I am unimpressed. In interviews he is also unimpressive. Time for him to go quietly.

Belly I'm concerned that you are against having a woman lead the ALP.... is that your worry? Women make up 51% of the population and many feel that they haven't had a proper voice in parliament ever. Perhaps that is why the Democrats did well for a long time (prior to the GST) because they were brave enough to have a woman leader.

Labor men seem scared of women... which to be honest doesn't say much for Labor men... they probably married a woman....lol

Women have so much to offer Australia and Gillard has the qualities to create a strong Labor Leader.

Shorten is a pipe dream mate... he can't do much in the next 5 years... he has no political track record for us to assess. As a non-aligned voter I am far more likely to vote for Gillard than Shorten as long as the policies were to the benefit of all Australians.

Scout asked you for a decent reason against Gillard and you haven't come up with one. Why?

Are you blinded by your Union background? As I said before... step back and have a look at the real picture... would you rather Howard have 3 more years than have the Gillard/Rudd team in power after the next election?

Belly,

The Shorten tactic for Labor is to 'be like Howard to beat Howard' and its as old as the hills and does not work. Don't be fooled.

Why would voters vote for a second hand version of John Howard if they've got the original?

Short-on ideas and even Shorter on tested leadership, Shorten is not the answer.

I can understand your need to have some hope in someone. But why someone like Shorten?

Surely you've much more sophisticated than this? I reckon you are.

I have to ask what in my posts can be used as evedence that I do not want a female leader for the ALP?
I do not want a greens infuenced ALP very strongly, but in time we will be a country with a female Prime Mister.
She will gain that job by being the best person for it not by a quota system.
Again my wish to revert to the path followed by Keiting and Hawk is no lurch to the right, just a must have move to follow the new conservative voters Howard has manufactored with massive help from Simon Crean, Mark Latham, your Julia and my Kim .
Only a Labor goverment can restore workers rights, policys that give true safty net for all who work , a national basic award condidtions and protections are only more lies if from the coalition.

Hey Belly

We're all wanting a Labor victory some time in the NEAR future. And its great that we are having this discussion without being harrassed by the rabid right.

But seriously, Kim? Its been ten years, mate. When is this magic leadership gonna appear?

Kim is a lovely, cuddly fellow and it is time for him to step down gracefully and give the party a chance to find its way without a lot of factional backstabbing.

Now, you state that you don't think you have implied a female leader would be a bad thing. Well, you have because you haven't been able to supply any valid reasons against Gillard - have you listened to her in Parliament question time?

Also you talk about selection on merit - nothing wrong with that, but at present we have a very small pool of women to select from. When there are at least 50% percent female pollies available, then we will have the luxury of merit.

I'm not saying that Gillard is necessarily the right choice for leader, but I am saying she has done very well thus far and deserves a chance.

What we don't need is more of the same - no more Beazley and Shorten will only lengthen the Libs stay in office.

We need leaders to represent the worker and small business. The big end of town has always taken care of itself - but it is the minority so why are we continuing to jump to its tune?

Cheers