Belly wrote: Surely you understand Shorten has been nominated a future ALP leader long ago?

I have no doubt he was.

But does this mean those anointed are somehow born to rule? No matter what they say, do or don't say or do?

Surely the Labor party is much more internally democratic and politically rigorous than to rely on popularity contests where flavour of the month people like Shorten gets a shot cos some old union codger reckons he's the next Labor Messiah pin up boy?

He’s not the messiah; he’s just a naughty little boy. (apologies to Monty python)

Only when Labor cleary outlines its bottom line on a range of policies will we have a definitive understanding of leadership potential. Shorten exists only because of this policy vacuum.

And this is the sad truth, Rainier wrote:

"Only when Labor cleary outlines its bottom line on a range of policies will we have a definitive understanding of leadership potential. Shorten exists only because of this policy vacuum."

With the AWB running hot in the media, where is Labor? They could be offering an alternative accountable, responsible government. A government that will communicate with its departments, that will keep up with events no matter if they fall into the 'too hard basket'.

The silence is deafening. Another opportunity lost, like GST, children overboard, WMD's, stolen generation and on and on....

Still I am listening, but I'm not hearing anything much. Just a bit of outrage from Rudd, barely a ripple from Beazley and NOTHING from Shorten.

Can't see myself voting for Labor again :-(

Its the portfolio Rudd handles and he has done a great job chaseing this goverments pork pies on the issue.
Shorten not yet even in the house has no mandate to talk on the issue.
Beazley has never stopped talking on the issue but the press rarely shows his coments.
The thread shows just how hard it would be for ANY Labor leader to win, talk of punishing both conservative and Labor?
Has the poster any idea that in the lower house its not posible? either conservative or Labor will get the vote unless its a rare independent seat.
And we are again and again seeing people want personalitys before policys?
Bill Shorten will one day lead Australia ,it may take ten years but he will do so because he understands the direction this country must go.
Policys are the answer those who would inflict Howard on us to teach Labor a lesson are to be laughted at but its sad not funny.

According to your logic Belly, the next election is already won by the conservatives and Bill Shorten will lead us into the promised land sometime in the future.(2010 ?)

Look up, is that a pig flying over your house?

In Orwell's book animal farm (have you read it

"Under the guidance of our Leader, Comrade Napoleon, I have laid five eggs in six days"; or two cows, enjoying a drink at the pool, would exclaim, "Thanks to the leadership of Comrade Napoleon, how excellent this water tastes!" The general feeling on the farm was well expressed in a poem entitled Comrade Napoleon, which was composed by Minimus and which ran as follows:

Friend of fatherless!

Fountain of happiness!

Lord of the swill-bucket! Oh, how my soul is on

Fire when I gaze at thy

Calm and commanding eye,

Like the sun in the sky,

Comrade Napoleon!

Thou are the giver of

All that thy creatures love,

Full belly twice a day, clean straw to roll upon;

Every beast great or small

Sleeps at peace in his stall,

Thou watchest over all,

Comrade Napoleon!

Had I a sucking-pig,

Ere he had grown as big

Even as a pint bottle or as a rolling-pin,

He should have learned to be

Faithful and true to thee,

Yes, his first squeak should be

"Comrade Napoleon!"

Napoleon approved of this poem and caused it to be inscribed on the wall of the big barn, at the opposite end from the Seven Commandments. It was surmounted by a portrait of Napoleon, in profile, executed by Squealer in white paint

Friend how did you gather the idea that I think like that?the thread is about fixing the ALP.
It can not be done by insulting the voters with recycled and rejected policys or leaders.
Surely only the greens would want Gillard in Labor leadership?
Surely only they are ready to forgive the part she and medecare gold played in Lathams tragic surender?
Shorten is almost evil in your posts? why? on what evedence?.
Is it not clear the lack of concern for the AWB shamefull scandal, the workchoices murder of fairness in the workplace is because many are far to comfortable to care?
Dream your dreams but reality is not leftist, no people lead revolt is to win this election for Labor.
Look to England and understand Tony Blair leads the way to Labor.
The thought that the election will fall into our arms is folly.
If we work every day never stoping we may just win ,it is unlikely without that effort and change.
That fact fills me with fear, but reality remains.

Fixing the ALP, hard time for me I know without doupt had Kim Beazley been ALP leader in the last election the Howard victory would have been trimmed.
In no way the train wreck it turned out to be, and the upper house would have not been lost.
Yes Howard would still be prime minister, and another would be leading the ALP today, strangley that would have been in all proberbility Mark Latham.
Kim you are a good bloke hearing you speak with so much pride about our troops in desert storm will remain a memory that I never forget.
Bloke its time, AWB new plans to imprison children, lies and the shame of workchoices?
We must fight an election we can win , mate its time please go.
Good luck and good by to a real good bloke.