I should have said glimmer twins, but let me tell you leaves falling from trees and cuting trees is a thing I understand its life.
I grow trees for fruit and once trimmed more and better fruit than ever follows, that has to be first step in a party that has forgot how to win.
Policys now, a new IR system to better Howards, less Gillard self promotion for a job she will NEVER get, a true interal debate about leadership, and maybe more by elections after those trimmed leaves leave early.
We should get our new blood in the house before 2007 not retain dead wood.

So the interesting thread died those who watch such threads here may wonder as I do at some internal blasting at partys direction.
Look at the polls and its not hard to find our problem, the Labor/union/non conservative movement places too much hope in solidarity.
Can it be we are planning a last minute campaign? or even a last months change of leadership?
If so we betray non conservative Australia, my other, clearly a new leader is part one plan?
Fund by public donation starting now every marjinal Labor seat in Australia.
Clearly we will battle to match conservative donations from big busness, and just as clearly Howard will cry.
But Australia needs a change now.

Belly, Like you I gave up on solidarity, [class unity] years ago.
However, I have yet to hear what will replace it. I am uncomfortable with centrism simply because it stands for nothing and everything at any given moment. Wars and fear have always elected conservative governments. So too has greed. Winning government at any cost is stupid and dangerous. Is this what your are advocating?

I am trying to reverse history, both the dreadfull DLP and the Labor left for decades stood by willing to let Labor stay out of power rather than face truth.
Truth that says a Labor goverment even my hoped for New Labor would be far better than any conservative goverment, surely Tony Blair has done much you like?
We can not plant spuds and ask why we are not harvesting pumkins, Australia is not ready to elect a greens goverment and never will be.
A leftist Labor team will run second for 100 years, are we duty bound to govern for non conservatives or entench Howard in the house?
Its ok to dream but this punter has never seen the clerk of the coarse win a race at Randwick.
Labor needs internal bickering about direction less now than ever 3 more years of Johny short bottom would be dreadfull.

Belly

Labor has been right of centre since Hawke, all Johnny has done is run with the economy as set up by Paul. While Labor continues to offer the same it will never eradicate lil Johnny.

Yet you believe that Labor should remain right wing? We need a party that respects the worker and small business. Currently both major parties only respect corporate politics.

And BTW, unless there is a major shift towards equity in the workplace, solid environmental strategies etc, I will be voting Greens.

Belly, Theres only a paper thin difference between a centrist (closet Right wing) Labor party and a Coalition led by Peter Costello. Same dog, different hair cut mate.