NC,

Perhaps you might clarify this for us:

"The Hadith and homosexuality: The Hadith are collections of sayings attributed to Muhammad. Many Hadiths (ahadith) discuss liwat (sexual intercourse between males). Two examples are:

"When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes."

"Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to." (in reference to the active and passive partners in gay sexual intercourse)...."

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/homosexuality.htm

Tolerance?

Is Mise
"Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, .... ...... who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation....."

NC has covered it comprehensively and we need to thank him for that. Just a thought from my side, which may interest you.

To me the story in Quran helps me avoid the trap of "crime and punishment" which has baffled humans since ages.
Somerset Maugham, an accomplished author for example, has fallen prey to it. He in his book, "The Summing Up" takes crime and punishment in literal sense and asks why people suffer for no fault of their own? And then, says, having seen, children dying painfully of Meningitis,( he was a doctor by training) concludes; there is no God.

Hindu religion has the concept of transmigration of soul, that one may get rewarded or punished for the deeds or crimes of the life, lived previously.

The story in Quran, on the other hand, helps us see that the Devine scheme is unfathomable by our narrow definition of crime and punishment. It is also, confirmed by explicit words in Quran, roughly meaning that humans may perceive certain things as good for them where as those may in fact be harmful and vice versa. This theme is also confirmed by the story of Yousaf (Joseph) in the chapter titled after his name and which is referred to, in Quran as the best of the stories, how he suffers at the hands of his brothers, to be sold in bondage in Egypt. And all that suffering, that he goes through, was for in fact, for his ultimate exaltation in knowledge and status to realize his dream of "the sun, the moon and the eleven stars bowing before him".

This to me, teaches to see every challenge as an opportunity, and never to give in and to go on with this life with positive attitude. Is it a license for me take other's lives? Absurd, that would be to assume.

Is Mise,
""The Hadith and homosexuality: ..........."

Now homosexuality? And what is the relevance of it, to the topic under discussion?

Or is it that some on this forum, are incapable of focussed discussion, at all?

If we were serious, honest and focussed, all of us should have; while condemning the crazy hostage taker, also condemned the brute, who harassed an innocent lady for her dress.

Those, who even after this lengthy discussion, continue to beat about the bush and remain one sided, are confirming their one eyed view, that they blame on others.

Now, final call, for the honest folks....any condemnation for the zealot who harassed a lady for her dress or faith?

MacAdam,

It is relevant in that the topic under discussion was a Muslim fanatic who believed in the teachings of Islam, as Islam decrees the killing of homosexuals for a private act then one wonders how you, as an adherent of Islam, see this matter.

Do you believe that homosexuals should be killed, do you believe that they shake the throne of God?

Is Mise, from where I sit, there is no justification for a death penalty to exist in a modern state, since it is trivially easy to keep even the most egregious of offenders incarcerated and there have been many examples of failures of jurisprudence even in matters far less consequential than capital crimes. There is also a strong case to be made that execution, whether 'humanely' by the state after a lengthy and comprehensive case review process, or by lynching (ISIS beheadings are a modern example, which use and ancient method, decapitation), or with the hideous shows of barbarity that used to be common in the West and elsewhere
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_methods_of_capital_punishment
has a deleterious effect on the group which practises it, in that it devalues human life to the point that the basic premises driving ethical behaviour within the group become unsupportable and force of arms is needed to enforce good conduct generally. Still another reason is the old poachers motto, 'better to hang for a sheep than a lamb', meaning that if the penalties for crimes are already high, then there may be little disincentive in escalating to more serious crimes, such as killing to prevent arrest.

In other words, your question in regard to whether homosexuality deserves death as a penalty is far too specific to be useful. In some places, interference with trade is a justification, in fact, only a couple of generations ago it was used to justify killing hundreds of thousands of people in a little soiree you may have heard of in a lovely place called Vietnam. In others, just walking down the street in the wrong-coloured skin will do it, saving the police all the messy paperwork of arresting and preparing a trial brief.

In others, our own fine country, for example, the death penalty is not a part of our law, but a fact of life nonetheless, with 4 extrajudicial executio...police firearms incidents in Qld this year. I'm not sure whether any of the victi...perpetrators were homosexual though. I'm pretty sure nobody thought to check - that would be unlawful discrimination, after all...

Is Mise,

Your message of the 2nd on homosexuality

All three great monotheist religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) don’t approve of it. You know it, but you must target Islam ONLY.

And for that you have, or will find, flimsy reasons like you showed us recently how the parable of Moses provides “a theological” foundation of honour killing!!

You have made your intentions of finding faults with Islam so obvious so far that any new attempt from you hardly merits a serious response.

But while we are at it, let us take up penalty for a crime as a society finds suitable for itself.

When a civilisation comes up with its own treatment of the so called crimes it is its RIGHT.

(Remember, hit and trial has enabled western society to shift its views that it held in past, there is nothing to suggest that its current views/finding will not change in time. In case of Islam, this change in time is ensured by the authority of “Ijtehad” this thread has not touched on so far)

But when a civilisation demands other civilisations to follow its practices, for instance, requiring Chinese civilisation to discontinue death penalty, it is its ARROGANCE.

You must let others run their societies just as you don’t welcome suggestions from others to run yours.

Please see the obvious line between the RIGHT and the ARROGANCE.