Craig,

" .... The only black clouds I want to see are the ones coming in from the West bearing some lovely, cooling rain.

Take your hot, dust-laden clouds of misery somewhere else."

I'm trying to decipher that. What on earth did any of it have to do with the topic, or with my questions to NC/McAdam ?

What 'black clouds', 'hot, dust-laden clouds' ? What 'misery' ?

My basic question was: "If Islamic State [i.e. whose flag Monis forced random hostages to hold up] is working totally against the teachings of Muhammad, will IS terrorists burn in Hell forever ?"

Ah, I see where the 'black clouds' reference may come from. Yes, imagine the horror of burning forever, giving off stinking black clouds of your own body fats. Forever.

Is that what you meant, Craig ?

Joe

"My basic question was: "If Islamic State [i.e. whose flag Monis forced random hostages to hold up]..."

That wasn't an IS flag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Sydney_hostage_crisis

"Early on, hostages were seen holding an Islamic black flag up against the window of the café, with the shahdah creed written on it in Arabic. Initially some media mistook it for the flag used by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL); the gunman demanded that an ISIL flag be brought to him during the siege."

He was such an IS professional he couldn't even manage to take the "right" flag along with him.

Thanks Poirot,

No, you're right, he was a terrorist, a murderer, a rapist, and in his own mind a committed Islamist - but no, he was forcing hostages to hold up possibly an al Qa'ida flag, not an IS flag.

And I'm sure that you would agree, as NC/McAdam has agreed, that Islamist groups like al Qa'ida and Islamic State are, as far as you know, NOT acting in accordance with the teachings of Muhammad ?

Would you also agree that they are reactionary, anti-progressive in every way, anti-women, anti-Left, anti-multiculturalist ?

If so, we're on the same page :)

Joe

Is Mise,

Your post of 1st January

So this is your reference for your repeated assertions that Quran preaches violence!

Interesting !

The description starts with verse 18:65 – Moses meets “one of Our slaves, unto whom We had given mercy from Us, and had taught him knowledge from Our presence”- Pickthall

Two relevant points:

1. The person, with a special knowledge, was acting under direct command of God and even Prophet (Moses) could not know why he did what he did;

2. The person changed the direction of events, in three cases, for the good of people, with actions which looked strange at the surface, including the one you mentioned.

The killing of the boy by the person was the Will of God (for the reasons explained). The life-giver is the life-taker- purely in religious sense, where is the problem?

Please see that this action of a person who has the knowledge higher than that of a prophet, can never be an example for a common person to follow.

The “religionofpeace” website you quote is one of the biggest known Islamophobe-sites of the present day, which peddles a level of misinformation about Islam hardly matched even by any of the hundreds of similar sites.

The site tells you that honour killing is sanctioned by Sharia and you believe it!!

So much for your “study of comparative religion at both Sydney University and at The University of New England”!

Quran does not authorise honour killing, how can Sharia?

Lunatics try to justify their actions with any authority. But does that reflect on the authority? No.

What you are implying way exceeds any normal level of subjectivity.

One message in experience of Moses could be that God’s handling of the world (the natural processes) may appear to be destructive at surface, but in fact the processes are constructive in the real scheme of things. Science today has advanced to a level to recognise some of it.

Obviously, if you can deduce honour killing from this parable, you can see honour killing in mathematic equations as well, I am sure.

Hi NC/McAdam,

Thank you for clarifying that point - that honour killings are completely against the teachings of the Koran. It may be an old and backward custom, in old and backward villages, reflecting male-dominated power structures, but it has no place in the Koran, in Islam or in Islamic societies.

I'm sure you would also agree that rape and enslavement also have no place in Islam, they are not approved by anything in the Koran - is that so ? Rape and enslavement of non-Muslims ? Or rape and enslavement of Muslims - this is what's banned by the Koran ?

I agree with the Koran, if it says that Muslim women should not be either raped or enslaved or both. But I also agree that non-Muslim women should not be raped or enslaved.

How does that sit with you ? A simple 'yes/no' answer would be okay :)

Joe

NC,

Ah! The art of Apologetics, are you a Jesuit by any chance?