On gradual journey of humanity to human values of today:

This post covers a current reference to Quran on slave women of the time “those your right hand possess”.

My focus would be the upright minds seeking truth on this and related aspects.

Quran lifted the society of the time gradually out of its vile practices, which was the only way to do it.

The poster presumes that human beings acted and thought exactly as the people of this age of reason do. Therefore, the current practices must decide what should have been right or wrong in those societies.

Examine a fact for clarity on what I have just said.

Twelve Tables are recognised as the first source of written law out of which the Roman and therefore Western laws have gradually evolved over centuries.

Twelve Tables recognise the authority of a father over the life and death of a son and also authorise him to sell his son into slavery for a number of times.

For a clarification again: I am not insinuating anything devilish about Roman society – but only pointing out that its right and wrong were different from present.

Can you judge this law by the current standards and independent of awareness of the right and wrong of the society then. I don’t think so.

Slavery has been prevalent in human society since long and was rampant in the times we are talking about. There were slave women in Muhammad’s times who were predominantly forced to bring money to their owners through prostitution. Islam changed this, as a first step. Imagine the social ills it corrected.

Quran rated freeing a slave as one of the highest virtues. One of many freed slaves in Muhammad’s time was one of his most respected friends (black) Bilal.

And then is the respect for women Quran introduced and gradually convinced its followers which equally benefitted the slave women.

A bigger vision can see things in the right perspective. This is why great minds revere Muhammad for what he did for humanity.

On McAdam’s notes on correct translation of Quran

McAdam’s presentation of the correct translation of the Quranic verses that Kactuz misunderstood has shifted the discussion a bit.

The fact I have pointed out many times is that there is a whole lot of material on the internet generated by the medieval mindset full of distortions about Quran and Muhammad. If you decide not to look outside this trash, the outcome is obvious, as it shows in the posts repeatedly peddling falsehood.

Kactuz responds to McAdam’s clarifications saying that he is a very old man. It only shows how long he has been exposed to distortions. Still, he can approach the subject with an open mind, if his prejudices let him.

This was done by thousands of people in the west, with the result is the Islam is the word’s fastest-growing religion in the west.

Arnoud Van Doorn, Dutch politician who once helped produce a film depicting Islam as evil and extreme , like Kactuz does– is an interesting case study for Kactus.

He used to be a leading member of the Party for Freedom in Netherlands, headed by the notorious Geert Wilders.

Respect for truth in his mind forced Doorn to dig for truth independent of his prejudice.

As he said

“I have heard so many negative stories about Islam, but I am not a person who follows opinions of others without doing my own research,” he said. “Therefore, I have actually started to deepen my knowledge of Islam out of curiosity.”

The outcome of an honest search: He is a Muslim now!!

With a confession that entire world has heard “I AM SORRY, O PROPHET”

Doorn’s son observes:

“I saw my father become more peaceful after converting to Islam”
“That’s when I realized there is something good in this religion and it made me change my perception of Muslims.”

The son too is a Muslim now.

Kactuz may want to step out of the prejudices that one-eyed medieval literature has planted in him. He may be able to see the life-giving light of the Quran.

Oh come on, McAdam, There must be 10,000 Muslim websites that say “ma malakat aimanukum” (what your right hands possess) refers to captives or slaves. Of course, all also go on to say that this is about care by compassionate Muslims who will marry and/or care for them. Yeah, right.

Read the quran and hadith again. Say the words carefully, s-l-o-w-l-y. It says that Muslims can have sex with captured or slave married women (and no need to even mention the fate of unmarried). This is a special divine exemption from the sin of adultery.

It is very clear that this is an authorization to have sex with women -- married or not -- who are captured or owned by Muslims. Note that the woman’s opinion is not considered. That is rape.

These are the same verses that ISIS fighters use to justify rape. Of course, if the quran were really perfect, the moral prohibitions would be clear, and evil men would not so easily find verses to justify their actions.

As I have said before here, it seems that Allah and Mohammad don’t care very much about little girls. If they did, they would not put rubbish into the Quran/hadith that lets evil men justify evil. Do you want to hear the true story of a young girl named Aisha, who was raped then condemned to die for ‘zina’ a few years ago? The elders applied Islamic law. I saved the article.

NC, When you say the “Quran lifted the society of the time gradually” you aren’t kidding. I remember when SaudiArabia abolished slavery in the 1960s. 1300years is really gradual.

Nothing is absolute like morality based upon “current practices must decide what should have been right or wrong”. Are you saying then that homosexuality is fine?

Yes, as to the “respect for women Quran introduced” nothing says respect like ignoring women, saying they are worth half a man, permitting beating, mentioning only one by name in the Quran and saying they are deficient in intelligence and not worthy to lick pus off their husband.

Bye. Off to work.

So much fear driving so much hatred.

On both sides.

To what end?

continued:
So the full quotes show that The Quran, in no ways preaches or authorizes rape, as was being incorrectly suggested.

Quran however does talk of slaves and spoils of war. That makes a few minds uneasy for they think and judge in the terms of present times. That was the prevalent practice of the time and is in no way exclusive to Quran or Islam.
A quote from a biblical story and an extract from Bible are being quoted here. Jacob retuned after serving his uncle Laban, for years with a large heard and in addition, two daughters of the uncle; Leah, and Rachel as wives and two slave women Zilpah and Bilha . Later, his son Joseph who suffered at the hands of his brothers was to be sold in slavery, in his boyhood.
And now a quote from Bible; However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
The quotes from biblical story and from Bible are from secondary source with possible need of correction. Please do correct, if any misquote is noticed."

Thanks

McAdam/NC,

So the morals of the Koran are equivalent to biblical tales of four thousand years ago ? Yes, it does reflect the morals of traditional desert tribes, but I didn't think they were as backward as four thousand years behind the West.

You point out that the "Quran however does talk of slaves and spoils of war."

If the Koran was handed to Muhammad in 612 AD, ready-made, with not a verse ever to be changed, the literal word of Allah, then he was certainly prescient, knowing that the new converts to Islam would need to deal with "slaves and spoils of war".

So, if the Koran does talk a great deal about "slaves and the spoils of war", is that still applicable ? After all, not a word, or a n instruction, of the Koran is to be ever changed ? So slavery and distributing the spoils of war, including women, are still approved by the Koran ? Islamic State is, in fact, implementing the instructions of the Koran ?

Lucky Islam is a religion of peace. Are you going to also claim that it is a religion of justice for women ?

Joe