kactuz,
About rape and Quran:
You quote Quran 4:24, full translation is:
And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done)

"Please note, "so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery." Clearly marriage is the subject here and not rape.

Your second quote 33: 50, complete translation is:

O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

Here too, "whom your right hand posesseth and those Allah hath given thee as spoils of war" are bracket with the kith and kin. No doubt it is the honest wedlock that is the subject and not rape.

008.069 Now enjoy what ye have won, as lawful and good, and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. ( All Pickthal Translations)

No preaching or sanction of rape here either.
Continues

Thanks

Hi NC/McAdam,

Thank you for that: but that raises yet other questions - not statements or assertions, please, but questions:

* if the Koran, as you say, forbids the rape of any woman - captive, slave, non-believer, child, or any other female, then would you agree that IF Islamic State terrorists are doing this, then they are acting against the teachings of the Koran ?

OR

* IF they ARE acting in accordance with instructions from the Koran, can you point out those sections (or sections of any of the hadiths) which allow them to rape, enslave, murder, behead and crucify ?

Of course, you can wriggle out of all this by claiming that IS terrorists are NOT raping or enslaving or beheading or shooting or bombing anyone, it's all US propaganda. Give that one a try :)

Joe

The problem is that EVERYWHERE Muslims go they take their hate and violence with them.

Quote: The Swedish police recently released a map of 55 areas where they publicly admit to having surrendered control to the criminal gangs. These areas have long had problems with mailmen, fire trucks and ambulances being attacked when trying to enter, which has led to them routinely requesting police escort. Now it’s the police being attacked outright. These no-go zones are primarily so-called “exclusion areas” which is the politically correct term for the 186 ghettos that have sprung up around Sweden in the past two decades. These areas are predominantly populated by immigrants from muslim countries with low education and even lower employment rates. The exception being the enthusiastic entrepreneurs in the fields of drug dealing, protection rackets and robberies.
http://swedenreport.org/2014/10/29/swedish-police-55-official-no-go-zones/

Its the same in Denmark:
Quote: Many of the gang members who take an active part in the ongoing conflict in Copenhagen come from refugee families. For them, violence is a natural way to resolve conflicts. The band members are just part of a large group of young men with refugee backgrounds who are convicted and released over and over in a loop of crime. 70% of young people in penal institutions in Denmark are immigrants, and 40 percent of them are refugees
http://www.information.dk/189994

The words “immigrants” and “Muslims” are mostly interchangeable. According to (PC) government experts, crime is caused by violence trauma they fled from and, yes, that trauma is inherited.

The negative effect of Muslim immigration (crime, poverty, violence, abuse, rape, welfare overload and fraud) is evident everywhere Muslims go in numbers. Here on OLO we have an article “Monis and…” blaming immigrant problems on untreated PTS. Of course.

Yet leaders in the West – Sweden, Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands, Canada, the US, Australia, etc. – lie to us and pretend the obvious problems have nothing to do with islam.

And people like NC and MCAdma invest hours to proclaim all criticism of Islam and Muslims as hate or ignorance. Never once do they consider Islamic dogma as a source of evil.

NC and McAdam (made a mess out of your name above)

On a kinder note. Firstly, know that my dislike of Islam proceeds from threats against myself (yawn) and my family (contemptable MFers!). They were not you and I don’t hold you responsible for what other Muslims do, but you defend an ideology that I sincerely believe is problematic.

You disagree. Fine. I am certainly much older than you both, and I want for you and yours the same that I want for my children and grandchildren. From where I stand I see Islam as a detrimental force due to a complex number of forces that have come together (I have written about this 10 years ago here) but most of all it is because Muslims have no ability to reflect on Islam’s theory and practice. Criticism of the Quran and Mohammad are off-limits, so nothing changes.

Basically Islam is an “all or nothing” proposition; either it is perfect or it is a mass of errors, so you give no ground.

So it is. I'll let you know a little secret: In all my years here and on other sites, I do not know that I have ever convinced a Muslim of anything or changed a mind. I don’t really do this to argue with Muslims, but to share with non-Muslims what I have learned in thousands of hours of study of Islamic documents and doctrine.

I am sure we all want a better world for our children, but I doubt that will be the case. As I have said here, the future will not be nice. Too much evil and stupidity has been done by all (Muslims and infidels). Pandora’s box is open and the venom of loathing will spread.

At this point, I think that all our collective ramblings here are pointless. You will not change, we will not change and our leaders will continue to pursue foolish policies that will damn us all.

But, at least, as the Chinese say, we can be thankful we live in interesting times.

You take care. Jay Kactuz

McAdam, I find your defense thin. What do you interpret as what the "right hand" possesses in the first and second quotes and what "Allah hath given thee as spoils of war" in the second?

I can't quite discern from the quotes whether marriage is involved in having sex with the (captive) spoils of war but, if it were, there would obviously be a degree of coercion involved i.e. a choice between yielding to the process or death. That's rape. If marriage is not involved in enjoying the "spoils", that's rape too. As I said, a thin defense, unless I'm missing something.

Perhaps it could be understood in the context of its times. How would women survive with their menfolk annihilated and without any other (international agency) support? It's a crime against humanity nowadays.

Rape aside, what of interpretations from the site I provided, say, regarding other such crimes?

Continuing with my posts on Muhammad, the one revered by the great minds.

And who is by far the most remarkable man who ever set foot on this earth.

In famous words of Annie Besant,

“It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet”

In the words of Edward Gibbon and Simon Ocklay “History of the Saracen Empire, London 1870” page 54.
“It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that deserves our wonder; the same pure and perfect impression which he engraved at Mecca and Madina is preserved, after the revolutions of twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes of the Koran... The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation of reducing the object of their faith and devotion to a level with the senses and imagination of man. I believe in One God and Mahomet is the Apostle of God' is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honors of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue; and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion."