I'm amazed at the ignorance of those who rubbish Marsh's opinion and imply that fatherlessness is irrelevant. OK fatherlessness is one of many factors, but it is a KEY factor. The FACT is that countless studies prove beyond all reasonable doubt that on average kids do better when they live with both their biological parents, and even better when their parents are married. That's fact - though it should be obvious from common sense and thousands of years of history.

And as for the killer being a Christian fundamentalist - that's not true as anyone who bothered to read what the killer wrote should know. But then Marsh's critics often seem weak on facts and strong on vincible ignorance and anti-Christian bigotry.

Paw,
So much for "women and their children" (where the father is considered irrelevant).

I have wondered how it was once possible to raise a family, own a home, and retire at 65 on a single income.

Now, 2 incomes may not be sufficient to even own a home, and this is at a time of globalisation (which is supposed to make things cheaper), and during a resources boom.

I tend to think that feminism has been a significant part of this society shift towards working longer for less.

<Feminism is simply about equality - always has been - it is not about a female conspiracy to take over the world for goodness sake. Or to keep fathers from their children. Those more radical commentators who argue all men are rapists or who push greater benefits for women over men are clearly not feminists but a whole other animal.>

Posted by pelican, Tuesday, 2 August 2011 9:13:33 PM

Whilst those commentators are a whole other animal, they do use the cover of feminism to push and justify their own agenda and if women who claim that they are feminist's (equality) do not speak out against them, then they by default support them by their silence.

James "if women who claim that they are feminist's (equality) do not speak out against them, then they by default support them by their silence." while I agree in part it can be taken to extremes.

How often do moderate feminists have to speak out against agsint the extremist? How often do men wanting fairer treatment for men in coverage of DV, child residency etc have to clarify their comments with a condemnation of men who do abuse their partners or who don't care for their kid's? It can be taken as a point scoring exercise when taken to far.

Like most things its a balance which we all need to pick. The bit that really get's up my nose is the strong condemnation of opponents for the type of behaviors people engage in themselves or praise/ignore in those they agree with.

R0bert

Sorry Robert, I have to go with JamesH on this one.

It is a well known phenomenon here in Aus, where women (in general) rarely speak out against the evils perpetrated by other women under the guise of "equality feminism", where men and children are discriminated against and abused.

It's been my experience throughout my half century of life, that men (in general) will always speak out against and condemn any man who seeks to abuse or destroy another human being.

Yet when it comes to the evil committed by women in society, especially through the family court, there is nothing but a deathly silence coming from the female community of Aust. Why is that Robert?

To answer your question about how many times they have to complain or speak out against. I would like to see them do it for the first time, so that we can then decide how many times.

So far to date, there is only a sprinkling of women fighting for the 'true' welfare and rights of children who should have proper and equal access to both parents. When it comes to the suffering of men in Aus, there are virtually no women at all. Maybe one or two prominent women, but that is about it.

Even Blind Dumb Stupid Freddy can see that there is no equality with feminism today. I have spoken to women who agree that feminism today is not about equality and that it has gone way too far. But do you think these same women will speak out publicly about this?
Not on your life!

There are as many masculinists who rarely acknowledge problems facing women. The more radical masculinists are scathing of women in general, comments of which if directed at men would have them off in a flurry of outrage.

The growth in male victimhood is rife, some of it warranted but much of it vitriolic and fuelled by personal slights. How are they any better than the shock jock feminists who, for example, misconstrue Bettina Arndt's comments for their own purposes.

JamesH
I get your point but just because someone calls themselves a feminist or espouses a feminist policy does not make it so.

Why not debate the policy rather than the label of feminism? It is more meaningful to argue on points rather than on emotional psychology around feminism. Also why not argue that the policy is not feminist if it discriminates.

Just as men are not responsible for the actions of other men, it is unreasonable to expect women to take responsibiity for the actions of other women who use the cover of feminism for matters far beyond that narrow perspective. It is the same as the 'all men are rapist' lobby in making sweeping generalisations about a group of peope.

Some writers like Jennifer Wilson and others do attempt a fair analysis of gender without pushing a strong 'feminist' agenda other than one of equality for both sexes. I suspect many readers of these discussions cherrypick what already matches their own position and ignore any salient points made about the experiences of the opposite sex.

My POV is that many of the female posters on OLO genuinely support equality and take on board the comments by men, particularly when comments are not veiled in 'anti-women' sentiment. What is more disheartening is some men who speak angrily about discrimination they experience, show little compassion for women in difficult circumstances choosing instead to blame women for all manner of offences with little responsibility or onus on men to behave with integrity.

Sometimes those pushing an 'equality' agenda are really all about 'me' on both sides of the gender divide.