Nice try, CompeterN.

>>...he demolishes your argument in just two sentences: “I'm not going to pretend I'm a very religious person, as that would be a lie."<<

Two sentences, against a hundred-odd pages. I think the weight of evidence is, literally, on the affirmative: he is a Christian fundamentalist, who proclaims, with great humility, that he is not very religious. A familiar tactic from Southern Baptists too - Lord, ah'm jest a sinner...

>>Pericles, my repertoire already includes the question: “Whose example and teaching did they follow: Jesus or Muhammad?”<<

Thought it might, somehow.

I expect you also pick and choose very carefully the bits of the Bible and the Qur'an that "prove" your point, don't you? Go on, show us your whole cabaret.

Sanctimonious hypocrisy at work. A familiar story.

Pericles painted into a corner persists! The killer self-identifies as a pragmatic secularist and says it's a lie that he's very religious. But despite Pericles admitting the killer isn't following Jesus' teachings, which is the only logical definition of a Christian, Pericles still insists the killer is a Christian fundamentalist because of 100+ pages of waffle! More to the point, Pericles, surprise surprise, is more interested in rubbishing Christians!

And back to the point: fatherlessness. Fatherlessness is part of the scourge of atheism and secularism. The only reason the West enjoys the remnants of freedom and rule of law is that Christians won all those benefits over centuries. But now many atheists and secularists seem intent on destroying marriage and the family and Christianity. But families and fatherhood are essential for civilisation.

So-called Christians may have killed thousands in Crusades and so-called religious wars, but that pales into insignificance compared to the tens of millions killed by atheists such as Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot. Mao etc who killed more in one century than died in all previous wars. But then atheism is actually a religion because it's based on beliefs that can't be proved.

So just as Pericles defends his religion, I defend mine.

"But despite Pericles admitting the killer isn't following Jesus' teachings, which is the only logical definition of a Christian, Pericles still insists the killer is a Christian fundamentalist because of 100+ pages of waffle! "

Yeah but what christian fundamentalist does follow Jesus teachings?
What biblical literalist takes the whole thing literally?

There is a mindset in place as well that's a far bigger problem. The christian fundy grouping that may or may not following Jesus teachings more genuinely that christian liberals (the fundies mostly think that the christian liberals don't follow Jesus teachings).

A mindset espoused by those willing to twist whatever they can to create a need for christian "values" to be pre-eminant in society.

A mindset that considers itself at war with secular values, that constantly tries to find fault with what's not christain and spin it for it's own purposes.

Fertile breeding grounds for extremists who may not consider themselves overly religious or spiritual and who may eventually take the lessons learned from their fundy pals to extremes that the fundy purveyors of hate didn't expect.

R0bert

Gawd.

Mucho grande irony:

Either Christian fundamentalists or feminists are to blame for the behaviour of Breivik.

Does that mean the man is innocent of his crimes?

"Does that mean the man is innocent of his crimes?"

Why does it have to mean that he's innocent.
Can't someone still be responsible for their actions while still being influenced by a particular set of teaching. Like everything else we get a choice is what we choose to do with influences on our lives but that does not make those influences value neutral.

In this case Warwick has gone on the attack one the basis of Breivik growing up without his father being an influence in his life and of Breivik's mother and grandmother being feminists and completely ignored what appears to be a strong alignment with a lot of christain fundy causes and thinking.

A lot of these issues are not either/or, he can be guilty for his crimes and those who preach extremist messages can still hold responsibility for their own role in fostering the extremism.

R0bert

You put a lot of faith in that one sentence, CompeterN, given the masses of contradictory statements.

>>Pericles still insists the killer is a Christian fundamentalist because of 100+ pages of waffle!<<

Waffle? Let's take a look.

"I explained to God that unless he wanted the Marxist-Islamic alliance and the certain Islamic takeover of Europe to completely annihilate European Christendom within the next hundred years he must ensure that the warriors fighting for the preservation of European Christendom prevail."

Hmmm.

"We do not only have the people on our side, we have the truth on our side, we have time on our side, we have the will of our ancestors and the will of God on our side."

Ri-i-i-i-ght

And the induction ritual into the "Knights Templar"?

"[The candidate kneels in front of the altar, while reading the oath out loudly] I, ________, of my own free will and accord, in the presence of Almighty God..."

He is quite direct, in some places, even naming the particular version of Christianity that he believes in...

"We Protestants correctly talk about our church building as God's house"

He excoriates wussy Christians, too. Just to prove his Fundamentalism.

"many professing Christians... are willing to read a modified, pacifist, gender neutral Bible, missing what God says so that they can continue to ignore their duties in regards to the ongoing Crusade"

And his Fundamentalist Christian concept of God he makes crystal clear:

"Clearly, this is not a pacifist God we serve. It's God who teaches our hands to war and our fingers to fight. Over and over again throughout the Old Testament, His people are commanded to fight with the best weapons available to them at that time."

There are many, many other examples. One humble moment, and you are convinced the whole Christian bit was a sham? You are kidding yourself.

>>More to the point, Pericles, surprise surprise, is more interested in rubbishing Christians!<<

Not at all. Just the bigoted evangelists, that's all.

The ones who believe that they are somehow entitled to vilify other religions, while ignoring the rot inside their own.