I don't think I've seen any criticism of Islam or the Koran on this thread today that couldn't be applied to Christianity or the Bible. The only difference between Christianity and Islam is that Christianity has been dragged kicking and screaming out of the Dark Ages and into modernity by secularism.

The Bible and the Koran are equally horrid books that are just as insular and condemning of outsiders as each other.

It sounds like some of you need to try actually reading the Bible (I mean beyond the four Gospels) instead of simply taking for granted this standard line, that gets passed around so often it’s just assumed now to be true, about Christianity and the Bible being centred on a guy who was all about peace, love, and mung beans.

Speaking of which...

Is Mise,

I had already discredited that silly bit of apologetics you served up earlier at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6865#209004.

AJ Philips,
You have not defined the law Jesus had in mind in the sermon. He demonstrated what law he had in mind by healing on the Sabbath day, by gathering grain on the Sabbath, by allowing a prostitute no to be stoned but to be forgiven. The Law he had in mind was the good relationship between people and with God. Secularism had very little influence on the changes in English Parliament, e.g slavery. Wilberforce a devout Christian understood the scripture taught, "all men are equal". The secularist wanted to trade in slaves because it was an economic advantage. Examine what influences has changed the head hunter tribes of Asia from head hunters to peaceful communities.

AJ

The New Testament overrides the Old. Christianity did reform; Islam has not been reformed and cannot be reformed. Christians are not urged to kill non-believers. You are entitled to your views on religion, but you should give credence to the vast differences between Christianity and Islam. We are hardly threatened by Christianity, or other religions, but we are threatened by Islam, continually.

Josephus,

You need to read what I said in my link to Is Mise again, or be more specific as to why you think I'm wrong.

ttbn,

You need to read what I said in my link to Is Mise, full stop. The New Testament does not override the Old Testament. The New Testament is not even much better than the Old Testament, even if it did.

Josephus,

"... Wilberforce a devout Christian understood the scripture taught, "all men are equal". The secularist wanted to trade in slaves because it was an economic advantage..."

You might like to note that while slavery was being abolished - and citing Christian principles as the catalyst - that a hoard of industrialists, factory, mill and mine owners were at the time busily exploiting the workforce of the British Isles - incarcerating men, women and children during their work day - for up to 14 hours in hot unventilated buildings, procuring orphans from orphanages and abusing them, working them sometimes to death...all this for a pittance and the promise of squalor.

You might also take note that these new-monied industrialists usually plonked their behinds on the front pews in the churches on Sunday - and ponced around judgmentally the rest of week while they presided over the most depraved cruelties of their fellow countrymen.

Don't give me "the Christians stopped all the nasty stuff" guff. It was principled men who wrote reports and a few good and influential souls who moved to have British Factory Acts installed to stop the cruelties.

Read "Human Documents of the Industrial Revolution in Britain" by E. Royston Pike for some hackle-raising info - especially on child labour at the time.

That should be "horde"...

(Grrrr - typos...)