Toni,

"....Why does a holy book in one religion produce a hive-mind but a holy book in a different religion produce a plurality of views? How does that work?"
Every word of the Qur'an is binding on Muslims but the whole of the Bible is not binding on Christians.
Basically the majority of Christians (the Catholic and the Orthodox) follow the New Testament and such parts of the Old Testament as are seen to be in accord with natural law or which were specifically mentioned by Christ, such as the Commandments.
The plurality of views also owes a lot to the fact that Christians generally stopped killing each other a few centuries ago; we don't have the time to allow the Muslims to catch up.

//Hi Tni,

' .... arguing that all Muslims adhere to these far-right beliefs ....'

A bit of red herring ? 'All' ? Who on this site has been arguing that ?//

That's Toni, with an 'o'. I'll settle for Antonio, Ant-Man, Toni: Guardian of the Eastern Dark, New Bruce, and Tony.

I know you don't argue that way, Joe. But ttbn, Bazz, Banjo, Josephus et.al. consistently argue that all muslims are inherently fascist, and I don't buy it any more than I do the idea that all Germans are inherently fascist.

//On the whole, my bet is that most Muslims adhere to moderately-right beliefs and that some, admittedly a tiny proportion, might even adhere to moderate-centre and even slightly-left beliefs. I would respectfully suggest that they are not much more right-wing than Australians as a whole: perhaps the Muslim mean is only 10-20 % to the right of an Australian mean.//

Your estimates seem fairly sound. I think it's likely that Hindus, Muslims, Jews and some denominations of Christians, are on average more conservative than the Australian mean. I wish they weren't because I swing to the left and have no love of tories. But conservatism isn't fascism, and to equate the two - as so many of of the posters around these parts are keen to do - is the sort of lazy thinking you'd expect of hippies. Fascism is a vile ideology which should put back in its box whenever it rears its ugly head, with ruthless force if necessary. Conservatism is an unappealing ideology which can be debated in a peaceful manner.

Joe,

All the the promised utopias generally turn out to be worse than the system they replaced. We know that from experience and history. Utopia lives in the minds of the immature: immaturity is now scientifically accepted as extending to 25 years of age in the 'average' person. Some people never seem to mature. It also used to be accepted that the older people got the more conservative they became. I believe that was true; it used to be called 'growing up'. This thought-to-be natural occurrence seems to be a thing of the past, if the behavior of many of our middle-aged politicians and many of the posters here are any indication. If it didn't occur in their lifetimes, it can't be any good. Get rid of it for something new. They know so little about history that what they think is 'new' is really old hat, tried at least once, and found wanting. I heard someone say recently that young people think that life started the day they were born. We were probably the same, but all the institutions we had to guide us have been undermined and erased as being too 'old-fashioned.

Hi Tooni,

Just slipping in the extra 'o' in case of typos in future :)

No, I don't think the people you mentioned, or their pseuds, believe that 'all muslims are inherently fascist', merely that Islam is potential fascist - which, going by ISIS, is pretty spot-on, although their leftist pigeons would grovellingly disagree. They are pretty quiet, by the say, aren't they ? Even the Dying Swan.

But thanks too for refuting the non-issue of conservatism not equating with fascism. I think it's important that we should sometimes discuss non-issues, and straw men, as well as issues :)

Hi Ttbn,

In my case, immaturity stretched out to about fifty, around the time of the Tienanmen massacre. Of course now, that's way before most of the young 'left' were even born, so maybe they need to revise the curriculum in Cultural Studies every five years or so. For the lecturers too.

Your point about young people thinking that everything started with them (is modern culture potentially psychotic, or at least egocentric ?) is surely fertile grounds for all manner of horror and science-fiction books, don't you think ? If George Orwell had lived longer than 44, perhaps he would have done it. My god, what he achieved, what he learnt, in just those 44 years.

Cheers,

Joe

//No, I don't think the people you mentioned, or their pseuds, believe that 'all muslims are inherently fascist'//

Are you taking the piss? A lot of those characters have expressly stated that ALL Muslims necessarily subscribe to fascist beliefs, and ridiculed the view that only some can be persuaded to fascism as a left-wing fantasy.

//merely that Islam is potential fascist//

Well, yeah, but apparently so is Christianity. I'm pretty sure most blackshirts were either Catholic or Anglican, depending on their nationality. I think the development of fascist views transcends (descends?) the question of religion entirely: all colours and creeds can, and do, breed fascism, oppression. The question is, how do we stop it?

I think it might help if we all try being excellent to each other. And, uh, partying on. Some of the hill folk around these parts will probably dismiss that as a left-wing fantasy. But that's because they're cantankerous old hillbillies, and not because being excellent to each other is bogus.

I agree not all moslems are fanatics. They are Islamists however and
when push comes to shove they go with the teaching they had from childhood.
Islam is Fascist, but not National Socialist.
Islam is adamant that democracy is against Allah and that democrats are evil.
By being very opposed to Islam's fascism, democrats must be killed.
Moslems cannot be democrats.

Strictly speaking a moslem cannot be a naturalised Australian.
To swear an oath of allegiance on the Koran when that book contains
a part that permits lieing to infidels if it benefits moslems.
The same when giving evidence in court.

This sort of thing is why Geert Wilders MP wants to ban the Koran in Holland.