Another thing. There are plenty of farmers out ther comitting suicide through no fault of there own. I am also sure when the public donate money to animal welfare they are somehow deluded into thinking that money goes to the animals. Why should Animal Welfare organisations keep it all! Other than running costs it should all go to the animals it was dontated to. I recall when Wendy got onto the head Barrister for Red Cross after the farm hand Appeal. He said this>
I promise you Wendy Not one cent! of those funds are going to buy feed for stock- thats not what it was dontated for. No- Really -then next time they or anybody else show pictures of starving animals on TV and ring the hearts of the good public I want that made clear. Then I will start a trust fund saying. Every cent of this money is going to buy feed for the farmers stock. Lets see which one the public donate to shall we. Why should any Animal Welfare organisation NOT give it to the animals. Who cares how these pens are enlarged or who pays. I am sure the animals wont. They will just thank the good public. Considering as it was pointed out there are organisations with millions sitting in the bank a national advertsing [ TV adds at prime time spots to tell the public how it is should be number one cab off the rank.
Its the public donsted money and if its not going to be given to farmers to enlarge living conditions OR to a major TV drive then we really need another enquiry so the public knows where every cent is going.
I thought the whole idea of animal welfare groups was to improve living conditions for animals.
So what do you think these groups should do with the millions they raise. Let the animals continue to suffer because they just dont like farmers? Or spent it on improving conditions at least for the animals.?

They should be running campaigns to create awareness - just as Animals Australia and Voiceless are doing right now http://www.savebabe.com/pledge

Sitting around in the office complaining and thinking up ways to discredit these organisiations will achieve absolutely nothing.

"The report by R Nicholson in 2002 showed each tax paer forking out around $650.00 PA."

Umm Antje, even little old you can get your calculator out, push
the buttons and work out that that is nonsense lol.

Given 8 million taxpayers, that is 5 billion $!

THE MLA budget is around 140 million a year, around 28 %
of that is R&D grants, the rest of their income is grower
levies, processor levies, live export levies etc.

MLA is audited my Ernst and Young and frankly I have more
confidence in those audited figures, then in who said what
to Wendy on the phone :)

Antje, why must everything come back to an "anti PALE" stance?
I'm still working thru the live export issue trying to sort fact from fiction in the available information but my current leaning on that issue is against the live export trade.

I can understand the point's made by supporters of live exports and am interested in seeing what alternatives exist. I'm not as convinced as PALE about the issue but my bias is still more in that direction than the other way.

My comments about your on line behaviour are not anti PALE, they are about your approach to online discussion. Hiding behind the idea that any criticism of your online behaviour is anti PALE is a cop out.

Neither Yabby or PF seem to be advocates of animal cruelty, both seem to be trying to find a workable balance which caters for animal welfare and keeps farmers viable.

If you really want to make progress here stop the constant whining about how unfair you thing the site has been to you, stop the attempts to "tell on" PF for imagined misbehaviour on her part and focus on discussions that will help those of us not so close to the issue understand the pro's and cons of different aspects of animal welfare.

Likewise pretending that you were just asking a technical question when challenged about trying to pick fights ignores the numerous posts you've made which continue to snipe at Yabby and PF. School yard behaviour.

Ask techical questions if you need to but don't use pretend to do so to give an excuse for another long whine about OLO. If the site bugs you that much move on, otherwise get over it.

R0bert

Robert.
I "did ask" a technical question and "yes" there was a "moral" issue} behind it. You replied you were not interested and too busy.

Its there for all to see.

As you pointed out some people read the posts but dont reply. I can honestly say three emails arrived pointing out how you set this thread up to find ways of improving the system so it was more fair than showed no interest when I asked you about the technical problem. I experienced. Gee
GrahamY also pointed out just because you start a thread doesnt mean you can instruct people on what to post.
My technical problem was very much on topic of your thread. Your personal attack to me in response isnt. If the cap fits.

You say Yabby is Animal Welfare concerned. Shows how much you have read the posts. Yabby thinks its ok to stuff live animals in boots of cars both here and overseas and slit their throats with no pre stunning. Umm. You and I have different ideas about Animal welfare that for sure. I dont need pale to express my horror that you think thats fine.
PF You post this http://www.savebabe.com/pledge then have the nerve to complain when I post as well things like this
http://freerangefarmers.com/ and this
http://www.livexports.com/solution.html
Well if they and yourself can post about the vegetarian groups I am just as free to post about pro support free rangefarmers and re open abattoirs in Australia.
After all thats Yabbys excuse for live exports remember. - We dont have enough plants in WA to slaughter here. Lets send the poor buggers alive to another country where there are even less if any animal welfare codes of practice. Where they cant even treat each other with respect let alone animals. I am sure Robert you didnt see all the complaints about me posting as a pale supporter and putting up links while other do the same for the vegetarian people. "Quite sure.'
Oh and by the way Yabby.
I post here in my own time. I dont draw wages.

Antje Struthmann

One NEW link very relevant to the thread, is hardly comparable to the hammering you give your OWN website is it antje?

I cant speak for anyone else, but i just jump straight over any links you put up because I think we are all conditioned now to expect it to be just more of the same old pale stuff.

Animals Australia is one of the largest animal welfare groups in this country. It is well document here what your feelings are towards Glenyce. They are doing a great job at them moment with their free range campaign. You say you do everything for the animals? Then put aside you issues with GO and lend a hand or at least support the campaign. Have you signed the pledge?