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The Forum > General Discussion > The Carpark

The Carpark

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Nicky
Do you know what. You have just surprised me. Its really clear now the problem after all this time. None of the animal welfare animals rights people understand the world meat trade. Nicky in order to change it you must first know the industry and understand what makes it tick. Who has interests in which plants. Subs for overseas and Australia farmers. The difference. The real problem is your all only half informed and unwilling to work with people who are on side with better knowledge of the meat trade.
Well i give up.
I really thought you may have been one of the few more cluey ones.
Its not possibly Nicky.
You are well informed on which ship and which code where.
However like the rest of them have no idea how it all plays out in the real world
I have emails from AA AL and voiceless all saying they can be invloved with helping to estabish new plants in Australia because they can not endorse people eating meat. Well hello Australians eat meat.

I am sick of this. We worked hard to form a MOU with AFIC[ who do! understand. They liked what they heard and some of our ideas. With the greatest of respect Yabby I think they might know a little more about meat live exports to the middle east than you.
Nicky Yabby is right about putting up or shutting up
You lot dont want the guidence and advise of AFIC the x Fedral leader of 35 years of AMIEU, lawyers who owned! plants. Mark RSPCA CEO QLD and many others including good overseas contacts. None of these people are stupid.
Nicky you dont want the help of people who understand how to play the game for want of a better word.
You have not got a clue about the meat trade but you dont want to be told or helped either.
Good luck
pity for the animals isnt it.
Higher moral ground indeed.
I am sort of with Yabby on this one based on attitude.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Monday, 20 November 2006 8:58:01 PM
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It's very sad to see that we are back to insults and rudeness because our opinions differ. I do not believe that we should be paying overseas interests/workers to come here so that Australia "might" do the right thing. The Australian government is the culpable entity here, not AA,AL,Voiceless or PETA. They have a different approach, and no matter how much you try to discredit them, it won't change anything. Get over it.

According to the coversations I've had with meatworkers, the Federal government continues to throw money at the live export trade, as abattoirs and local jobs have shut down. The attack needs to be directed at the government which failed to provide any compensatory funding for those regions (the only regions which have ever been compensated over the shutdown of local industries have been where the gold mine is where those miners were trapped somewhere in the North of Tasmania. The other was John Howard's relative's textile company near Maitland in NSW).

Before the Howard government was elected in 1996, the previous government had wage subsidy and retraining programs which this government won't fund, preferring instead to indulge the cultural cringe and pander to those countries who demand live animals for the spurious reasons they claim. You need to get on to Kevin Andrews, the Workplace Relations Minister, and remind him of the Labor government's OLMA (Office of Labour Market Adjustment) programs, which diverted people into industries they wanted to "grow" (back then it was things like hospitality) - there is no reason why it cannot be meat processing.

I'm sure AFIC has more than enough money of its own to fund its own enterprises if it wants to go down that path, but they should be hitting up Kevin Andrews for training and wage subsidies to do so. This government needs be told that taxpayers will not continue to fund this evil industry.

Those are the REAL alternatives, not trying to bribe untrustworthy foreign entities to come here and capitalize on any breaks they can get, and then take the profits back to where they came from.
Posted by Nicky, Monday, 20 November 2006 10:03:01 PM
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Nicky
The bottom line is the industry has grown. We also run a group to inform public and badger Government.
However thats not going to fix it. Nothing will change unless you deal with the people taking animals alive Nicky.
Hit where it hurts and cut off the demand for live animals.
2and 2 make 4.
Now you can go on with your codes of [practices and your Andrews new bill [which by the way we supported in case you didnt notice] but until you put some real dollars in Australia to open plants sweet fA will change.
These are the facts Nicky. You talk about insults after your comments regarding the great work and efforts of AFIC to improve conditions for animals.
By the way Nicky AFIC are a not for P organisation. They dont personally run around buying plants. However they have bent over backwards to put forth some 'real' solutions to live exports of which you just poo hood by the so called peak vegatairn PETA extreme friendly groups.
You are like so many others who have become a culture of followers of AA AL.
You have clearly a good brain Nicky except you dont understand you must! understand the meat trade to stop live exports. That and you must have the funds. Big Funds. Yes your right the National Party has stuffed the country up big time.
Andrew Animals Australia have no interest in assisting to open plants again in Australia and have said so on many ocashions to this office.
You want to stop live exports?
Good.
Then stop bagging pale who are the only ones working with people involved with taking animals alive to divert to slaughtering here.
The fact! is Nicky AA AL have had years to stop it but its almost out of control.
I think somebody has been pulling your political leg along with many other Australians. Either help us get plants re openeded providing an alternatrive or see it get even worse.
Your choice.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Tuesday, 21 November 2006 4:17:25 AM
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But what exactly is it that you expect Andrew Bartlett and AA and AL and PETA for that matter to do? Put it in practical terms rather than non-specific criticism. What EXACTLY is it that you want? No-one is criticizing AFIC or anyone else, except you (for the record, I thought Andrew's bill was a little narrow in scope), with your ongoing complaints about vegetarians. PETA and AA both campaign openly on their websites for a frozen meat trade.
If you can detail exactly what it is you expect from these people, you might have a fighting chance for some credibility. It's very easy to make the "right noises" as AFIC does in the submission document I read - that costs nothing (although I find it hard to believe that they would use the term "chooks"). Perhaps one of your AFIC friends might join us on this or the other thread and elaborate a bit more about their expectations. The submission document does not contain any concrete, measurable proposals; pages about F&M disease and what animals in the US are fed - which at this time are totally irrelevant to Australia really say nothing.
Try to focus more on the "hows" - the REAL "hows" (rather than a loosely based series of statements) than the "whys", and for heavens sake, get over the philosophical differences. The only person bothered by them is you. Everyone else IS campaigning for a meat trade. I've given you the best information you're likely to get on how to lift employment in the meat processing sector, but you don't want to see it because you didn't come up with it.
Nicky
Posted by Nicky, Tuesday, 21 November 2006 7:21:21 PM
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Nicky.
What I would like to see is for them for a start to stop rolling around shopping centers half naked with pretend blood on them outside the meat conferences.

The reason I would like them stop stop is because it gets every farmer 'off side' with all Animal Welfare groups. Of course they are free to continue doing that if they wish but as you asked me I am telling you.
It also has two effects on the public.
It makes turns the public off listening to any animal welfare groups branding them as a bunch of nuts.

PETA may say they support the meat trade on their web Nicky but they do not! They do not support abattoirs. That is a fact. They dont even think people should have a dog as a pet.
Andrew What do I expect. I expect him to keep his personal preferences out of politics

Then I would have thought he had plenty of time to explain to the general public about the ALP and their huge! part in creating live exports in the first place.

Just simple talk informing them of the facts would have been handy over the years. Oh but I forget his party give their preferences to labour dont they.

AA What did I want them to do?

Work in the help pick people from overseas[ live importers of animals and introduce them to local farmers with a view to coming to an alternative arrangments. I guess thats a bit hard when you have got most farmers off side, but still.

Attend some of the many meeting I know for a fact they were invited to meeting with overeas Muslim Government officials and others. They declined Nicky saying they could never get involved with promoting abattoirs because of the fact they were a vegatairan group.

I wont post in the car park about animalwelfare anymore. If you wish to discuss this further please go into the alternatives to live exports. Its not fair on Robert.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Tuesday, 21 November 2006 10:32:31 PM
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The fact remains that both AA and PETA DO actively campaign for a frozen meat trade despite the ethos of their organizations. They take the pragmatic view that it is significantly the lesser evil. That is a rather odd set of expectations.

Andrew Bartlett also actively campaigns in the Senate for a frozen meat trade, and has done so in the face of considerable rudeness from his parliamentary "colleagues" over many years. I have seen nothing in Hansard that reflects any personal preferences (I assume you are alleging that he allows his support for AA over your group to influence his political statements).

Expecting AA to get involved in importing meat workers from overseas is the most unreasonable of all. AA does not pretend to have any expertise in immigration matters, or in human resources practice such as recruitment and selection, and that's just a part of why such an expectation is so bizarre.

As far as "getting the farmers offside", with the exception of those like PF, I don;t think any of us gives a damn about that. We are talking of people who, rather than buy feed for their "stock", openly state that they will have them starve to death in paddocks if they can't get them on ships fast enough. Try that on a dog or a cat.

And there are also the unspeakable intensive pig and battery hen farmers. All groups are free to express their antipathy for these people in whatever way they choose. I do not always agree with some of the tactics, but I absolutely reapect their right to freedom of expression.

Finally, didn't HSI get a grant from Voiceless for their "certification" program? I suspect that what you are really after is someone to fund all this stuff you are proposing.
Nicky
Posted by Nicky, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 12:23:23 AM
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